[EURO-Discuss] R: Trip to Caucasus

Sat May 25 04:22:18 UTC 2013

Dear Roberto,

Special thanks for sending report to the Outreach SC - I hope it will help
a lot in drawing attention to our issue.

Dear Veronica,

I highly appreciate your contribution regarding "'mobile governance'
concept" and especially regarding "Mobile ID initiative". You know, that
majority of information on Ukraine's participation in "Open Government
Partnership" I receive from you))

In Ukraine we also have 100+ mobile penetration rate, but our Internet
penetration rate is up to 40 %(. And now we are trying to analyze how to
repeat the successful story of "mobilization" of our country for
"Internetization" of it.

And there is one more aspect regarding this issue - during Russian IGF in
Moscow Wolfgang said, that divide in Dubai was rather between "new "new
economy" and "old "new economy". It is very true for Ukraine, and it is
extremely important for us to understand the role of mobile operators in
this disposal. In this aspect it is extremely important to have all
calculations and data on this issue. Again in Moscow during RIGF Leonid
Todorov repeatedly asked about economical consequences of new ITRs. His
questions were not answered (the same for mine in Ukraine). This is very
important direction for future work, and it would be very important to
involve in it At-Large/ICANN and OGP.

Even this very short discussion shows, that there ARE many Russian-speaking
experts on IG (unfortunately, I used to hear that there is nearly no such
experts at all). Roberto's report and especially the discussion of it is
extremely important tool to collect all interested in this issue. I am a
member of Capacity Building WG, and we try to do our best to help separate
ALSes (even from different RALOs))) to build horizontal ties between
themselves - based on their spheres of expertize, languages, cultures
(first of all political) and so on. To the same purpose we launched our
project InfoZipper Network - as a platform for Russian-speaking experts on
IG. We really need as much support and contributions (from At-Large
especially), as possible.

Dear Veni,

I know, that we can always rely on your support)

Best regards,
Oksana

On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Roberto Gaetano <
roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Oksana,
> I have also copied my report to the Outreach SC, with the recommendation
> that we consider outreach in the former URSS Republics a priority.
> I believe that your initiative in Kiev, and Grigori's participation, can be
> very important also in helping going in this direction.
> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
> > -----Messaggio originale-----
> > Da: euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:euro-discuss-
> > bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] Per conto di EMP
> > Inviato: venerdì 24 maggio 2013 00:02
> > A: Discussion for At-Large Europe
> > Oggetto: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Trip to Caucasus
> >
> > Dear Roberto,
> >
> > Thank you very much for your extremely interesting and useful
> information!
> > Armenian experience really deserves special interest from ICANN!
> >
> > Last month we organized round table in our Ukrainian ccTLD, and invited
> > Grigory Sagnyan from Armenia for remote participation. He told us a lot
> > about Armenian experience, and in Ukraine there is great interest for it.
> > When we hear about Finnish experience, for example, it seems to us
> > absolutely unachievable. But Armenia has a lot in common with us, and the
> > gap in Internet Governance issues are more obvious. And namely Armenian
> > ISOC Chapter (Igor first of all) is much more easier to understand our
> > problems with our ISOC Chapter formation, than even Jacek.
> >
> > And it's true not only for Ukraine, but for a lot of other post-Soviet
> countries.
> > Especially regarding Internet and media literacy. We just discussed this
> issue
> > with our national regulator on telecommunications, and we really need to
> > work closer with our Armenian colleagues. Especially on cybersecurity
> issues.
> >
> > Just now we are working on inviting Grigory to visit Kiev in person. I
> will
> > discuss this issue next week with our Internews office, but it would be
> very
> > important, if ICANN will be also engaged in it. Grigory's role  in Dubai
> and in
> > RCC is difficult to overestimate, he has personal contacts with our top
> > officials, and he really has a great potential to influence on Ukrainian
> position
> > in this sphere.
> >
> > Roberto, it was extremely important for me to see your understanding of
> > problems with geographical regions. We really have to do anything with
> it.
> >
> > Once again - thank you very much!
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Oksana
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Roberto Gaetano <
> > roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all.
> > >
> > > I took the chance of a non-ICANN-related trip to Caucasus to contact
> > > the internet people, and specifically the At-Large structures, in the
> region.
> > >
> > > I was not on any official ICANN mission, but believe that it is worth
> > > anyway to write a short report of my contacts and personal
> > > considerations.
> > >
> > > I am addressing this to different mailing lists with separate
> > > messages, to avoid cross-posting.
> > >
> > > As reference to earlier discussions, you can see that the issue of
> > > ICANN regions has been extensively debated. Follow up contacts have
> > > shown that the ccNSO is also not happy about the current subdivision.
> > > As for the ASO, because of their special internal structure, they are
> > > affected by the regions only when it comes to Board Directors
> > > election.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I had a very interesting meeting in Armenia, hosted by ISOC AM, with
> > > the Armenian ALSes.
> > >
> > > The main points that came out from the discussion were (to the best of
> > > my
> > > recollection):
> > >
> > > .         The fact that the development of the internet in Armenia is
> > > consistently more advanced than in some neighboring countries (for
> > > instance, there are 3 ALSes) depends on a mix of elements, including
> > > the presence in Armenia of highly skilled ITC professionals as well as
> > > the vision that has identified since the early days the potential of
> > > the internet. This experience will be very difficult to replicate in
> > > other countries, at least in the short term.
> > >
> > > .         Thanks to the early vision, Armenia has developed the
> > > "multi-stakeholder" concept also in the management of the internet at
> > > the national level. The ccTLD operator, the ISPs, the At-Large
> > > structures, commercial organizations, the government, are tightly
> > > collaborating, and there is also the initiative of a permanent IGF
> > > forum in Armenia. This has allowed to have very advanced positions in
> > > international fora, where all stakeholders are contributing, and we do
> > > not have the situation that can be seen in other countries, where the
> > government is imposing its view.
> > >
> > > .         Looking at the map of the world, and the location of the
> ALSes,
> > > it
> > > appears clearly that there is a wide area, namely the former Soviet
> > > Union states in central Asia, where there is no ALAC presence. This is
> > > felt to be tightly correlated with the fact that the position that
> > > these countries bring in the international debate are only depending
> > > on government opinions.
> > > In order to promote ICANN's multi-stakeholder approach, ALAC should
> > > make an outreach effort to these countries with the objective of
> gaining
> > members.
> > > The general opinion is that this will be a difficult objective to
> > > achieve, but nevertheless it is strategically important.
> > >
> > > .         The current location of Armenia in APRALO is creating serious
> > > problems. It should be noted that the Armenian ccTLD operator is a
> > > member of CENTR (the European ccTLD operators organization), ISPs are
> > > getting their addresses from RIPE (the European Regional addressing
> > > organization), but the Armenian ALSes are forced to be associated to
> > > APRALO. Considering the point above, i.e. the Armenian
> > > multi-stakeholder model that brings together different interests to
> > > cooperate at the national level, we have the strange situation that
> > > national domain names and IP addresses depend from Europe, while
> > > At-Large structures depend from a different region. Moreover, there
> > > are at the At-Large level cooperation projects ongoing that are
> > > coordinated by the European Union, and the location of Armenia in the
> > > AP ICANN region does make little sense, if any. For instance, if
> > > EURALO develops itself as the partner of the European Union for such
> > > European projects, it would be extremely impractical to have
> > > participating ALSes being in a different region. Further
> > > considerations have been the location of Armenia in Europe in a number
> of
> > different international organizations.
> > >
> > > .         Armenia, being part of the former Soviet Union, has kept a
> > > network
> > > of contacts at the technical level with other operators that are part
> > > of the Community of Independent States (CIS). One example is also the
> > > Regional Commonwealth in the field of communications (RCC -
> > > http://www.en.rcc.org.ru/index.php). This network is also important in
> > > the discussions related to internet governance and for the decisions
> > > in the ITU.
> > >
> > > .         One question was raised, about what can ALAC do for the
> users.
> > > This is a key issue, because it is hard to motivate individuals and
> > > organizations to join ALAC if the only thing that they get is the
> > > opportunity to participate in policy development. Budget should be
> > > earmarked for initiatives that are useful for the internet users, like
> > > training.
> > >
> > > To this, I would like to add some personal considerations on the
> > > development of ICT, and specifically Internet, in Armenia.
> > >
> > > I have travelled extensively, in cities and in rural areas, and have
> > > been staying only once overnight in a place without internet
> > > connection, and only once in a place that had internet connection but
> > > not WiFi. Please note that I have never stayed in fancy hotels, but
> > > rather in hostels or guesthouses, always in inexpensive places. This
> > > gave me the feeling of the ubiquity of the internet in Armenia.
> > >
> > > Besides internet, I witnessed the diffusion of mobile communications.
> > > It seems to me that everybody has a mobile phone. I have seen not only
> > > bus drivers talking on their mobiles (a plague that I see very often
> > > in my country), but also shepherds in the countryside with mobile
> phones.
> > > Considering that the next frontier of the internet is mobile devices,
> > > this is promising.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, I failed to ask confirmation at the meeting with ALSes,
> > > but my impression is that Armenia took advantage of the progress in
> > > technology in the years of their independence, and moved straight to
> > > new technologies, when telcos in Europe and US (for sure this was the
> > > situation in Italy 20 years ago) were resisting change in order to
> > > protect and further exploit their investments in previous technologies.
> > >
> > > Another simple example of how the internet is affecting common
> > > behavior is the police. This is the only country where I have seen
> > > police cars displaying instead of the simple "Police" word in the
> > > local language the url of the police web site: www.police.am. It might
> > > be the case in other countries as well, but I have noticed it here for
> > > the first time.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Roberto
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
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> > >
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