[EURO-Discuss] R: R: R: Draft Board Report (2012-13) for Lisbon GA

[EMP]

Wolf, Roberto,

It is not about confusion. It is about problem solving.

I don't know how to contribute to improving of ALAC regional model (I know
about working group, but not about any practical results).

ALAC's representation is the consequences of this problem. If I can not
influence on the problem itself, but there is a chance to influence on
consequences - why not to try?

O.

On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 9:59 PM, Roberto Gaetano <
roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Wolf, I agree that they are separate issues.
> R.
>
> > -----Messaggio originale-----
> > Da: euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:euro-discuss-
> > bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] Per conto di Wolf Ludwig
> > Inviato: mercoledì 22 maggio 2013 23:58
> > A: Discussion for At-Large Europe
> > Cc: 'At-Large Staff'
> > Oggetto: Re: [EURO-Discuss] R: R: Draft Board Report (2012-13) for Lisbon
> GA
> >
> > Thanks Roberto for providing such a report! But as noted before (my reply
> to
> > Oksana) the ICANN regional model with obvious inconsistencies (see
> > Armenia etc.) and ALAC's representation rules are two different issues
> and
> > shouldn't be confused.
> >
> > Best, Wolf
> >
> >
> > Roberto Gaetano wrote Wed, 22 May 2013 08:55:
> > >In the next couple of days I will circulate a short report of the
> > >meeting I had at ISOC Armenia, during which the issue of ICANN regions
> > >has been debated.
> > >I agree with Oksana, there are cases in which we have to change the
> > >rules, because there are good reasons for doing so.
> > >Re: the representative for multiple ALSes, I am just saying that I do
> > >not see such compelling reason. But if there is one (like the case for
> > >Armenia in EU rather than AP), I will change my mind.
> > >Cheers,
> > >R.
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Messaggio originale-----
> > >> Da: euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > >> [mailto:euro-discuss- bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] Per conto di
> > >> EMP
> > >> Inviato: mercoledì 22 maggio 2013 08:35
> > >> A: Discussion for At-Large Europe
> > >> Cc: At-Large Staff
> > >> Oggetto: Re: [EURO-Discuss] R: Draft Board Report (2012-13) for
> > >> Lisbon GA
> > >>
> > >> Dear all,
> > >>
> > >> We will have today in our governmental agency round table on Cyrillic
> > >> domain for Ukraine, so I was going to intervene into this discussion
> > >later, but
> > >> Roberto's remark forced me to change my mind)
> > >>
> > >> First of all, I have to say, that we are discussing now not "Board"
> > >report, but
> > >> only "Chair" report - I saw it for the first time few minutes before
> > >> teleconference call. This is extremely serious problem for me, and i
> > >> will return to this issue later.
> > >>
> > >> But regarding Roberto's comment, I would like to clear the problem
> > >> just
> > >now.
> > >>
> > >> I agree with Wolf and Olivier that it will be very difficult to
> > >> change the
> > >bylaws
> > >> on this point.
> > >> But besides the difficulty and complexity, what would be the *real*
> > >> need
> > >for
> > >> such change?
> > >> Honestly, I believe that our aim should be to include more and more
> > >people,
> > >> and electing the same representative as a leader for multiple ALSes,
> > >whether
> > >> in the same or different region, is going in the opposite direction.
> > >> We
> > >should
> > >> favour more individuals to get leadership responsibilities in ALAC,
> > >> not
> > >have
> > >> the same set of people speaking in name of more ALSes.
> > >> So, I am personally against this proposal, not for the complexity of
> > >> the change, but because it will move us in the wrong direction.
> > >>
> > >> <OP> Roberto, you are now in Armenia, and you yourself raised the
> > >> issue regarding Armenia allocation to ICANN region. Armenia IS in
> > >> Europe, and
> > >HAS
> > >> TO BE in EURALO. I am absolutely sure, that all Armenian
> > >> representatives
> > >are
> > >> or will be extremely successful and highly appreciated in APRALO. But
> > >> it
> > >is
> > >> EURALO's gap that WE can not use their potential in full capacity.
> > >> Yes, Siranush and Narine are nearly the most regular participants of
> > >> our teleconference calls (unlike majority of other members of
> > >> EURALO), but it
> > >is
> > >> not enough.
> > >>
> > >> So, when I am talking about changes in the rules, I mean such
> > >> exceptional cases. I am really ready to raise this issue within ALAC,
> > >> at least to ask,
> > >if this
> > >> problem with Armenia is unique, or there are some other similar
> > >> cases. If there are, I will insist on broad discussion of this issue.
> > >>
> > >> I am fully understand, how Wolf is frustrated with my obstinacy with
> > >> this issue, but I would like to remember, that two years ago, when I
> > >> tried to
> > >raise
> > >> visa issues for the first time, I was indisputably said (again by
> > >> Wolf),
> > >that
> > >> ICANN is absolutely wrong place to discuss this issue. Now visa
> > >> issues are
> > >on
> > >> ICANN agenda. (Of course, I understand, that it's not my achievement,
> > >> but rather Canada merit)))). But maybe, this time I will also receive
> > >> some otherworldly help?)))
> > >>
> > >> I am not sure that I will be on-line until the late evening, but I
> > >> will
> > >follow this
> > >> discussion.
> > >>
> > >> Best regards,
> > >> Oksana
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Roberto Gaetano <
> > >> roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > Just on 1 point, my comment below:
> > >> >
> > >> >> >In response to Oksana's suggestion that ALS *representatives*
> > >> >> >should be able to be an ALS *representative* in another region,
> > >> >> >this is forbidden in the ALAC bylaws for a reason to make sure
> > >> >> >there might not be a possibility of manipulation/capture. It is
> > >> >> >99.9% sure that this cannot change because any change to this
> > >> >> >rule would need approval from the ALAC and approval from the
> > >> >> >Board and I don't see
> > >this
> > >> happening ever.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Of course, there is no rule against being a simple member of
> > >> >> >several ALSes. I am a member of 3 ALSes in 3 different regions;
> > >> >> >some are members of more than 3, in different or in the same
> > >> >> >region, it doesn't
> > >> matter.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> (WL) I explained this point in length and details already by
> > >> >> making clear
> > >> > that
> > >> >> we can be *simple members* of different ALSes inside and outside a
> > >> >> region BUT we can NOT be *representatives* of more than one ALS
> > >> >> (inside or outside a region), as you confirmed Olivier. And I
> > >> >> repeatedly noted that
> > >> > we
> > >> >> (at RALO level) cannot change this rule. IF anybody is still
> > >> >> unhappy with
> > >> > this
> > >> >> binding ALAC rule, the person can try to convince ALAC about a
> > >> >> respective change of their Bylaws! This was my very last comment
> > >> >> on
> > >this
> > >> point.
> > >> >
> > >> > I agree with Wolf and Olivier that it will be very difficult to
> > >> > change the bylaws on this point.
> > >> > But besides the difficulty and complexity, what would be the *real*
> > >> > need
> > >> for
> > >> > such change?
> > >> > Honestly, I believe that our aim should be to include more and more
> > >> people,
> > >> > and electing the same representative as a leader for multiple
> > >> > ALSes,
> > >> whether
> > >> > in the same or different region, is going in the opposite direction.
> > >> > We should favour more individuals to get leadership
> > >> > responsibilities in ALAC, not have the same set of people speaking
> in
> > name of more ALSes.
> > >> > So, I am personally against this proposal, not for the complexity
> > >> > of the change, but because it will move us in the wrong direction.
> > >> > Cheers,
> > >> > R.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
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> > >> >
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> > >
> >
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> >
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