[EURO-Discuss] Follow up on today's teleconference

Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond ocl at gih.com
Wed Jan 23 23:31:38 UTC 2013

Dear Roberto,

excellent replies from Wolf. Just a few additional points I wanted to
add in-line:

On 23/01/2013 02:30, Wolf Ludwig wrote:
> Dear Roberto,
> thanks a lot for your spontaneous comments on our today's telconf. what is much appreciated. Please allow me to insert my remarks in your text below.
> Roberto Gaetano wrote Wed, 23 Jan 2013 00:21:
>> A few comments.
>> Comments on the statements/consultation
>> I do appreciate the exhaustive report by Olivier, but I have the impression
>> that we all are not contributing enough to the development of these
>> statements.
>> Can we make an effort and comment on the consultations that are currently
>> open?
> (WL) Yes, you are right. it would be wishful and helpful for ALAC, if there would be more inputs from our ALSes (or ALSes in general) to current ICANN issues and ALAC consultations. This was - and still is - the basic idea behind the RALO and regional bottom-up structure to get ideas and advice from the representatives of the much-cited "end user". But to me, it was somehow clear from the beginning that good or even best ideas won't work the next day or in a short term. IMO, this is an empowering process (like in democratic societies) where people need encouragements, more than formal opportunities, enabling factors and environments to make use of their rights ... After five years at EURALO I have learned that this is a reciprocal process where both sides (let's say ICANN at the top, ALSes at the bottom line) have to match promises and expectations. And both is learning and work in process.

Yes, there is a lot of work still to be done on this, especially in
Capacity Building. You will note that the ALAC's policy development (
https://community.icann.org/x/bwFO  ) mostly has a small number of
pen-holders and I am always asking for more people to hold the pen.
Agreed, a lot of people like to comment on a text that has already been
drafted by someone else, and this is great, but having a more diverse
set of pen-holders would be even better! And let me say this one more
time, you do not need to be an ALAC member to hold the pen.

In order to get more involvement from ALSes on many of the subjects
discussed a lot of capacity building needs to be undertaken to teach
them about the issues at hand. This is why I am now pushing the At-Large
Capacity Building WG to start its work as soon as possible. We need to
act NOW! And we need to act at ALL levels: ALAC, RALOs, ALSes.

> (WL) As discussed tonight (there was an amazing exchange in the AC chat!), the current solution via the creation of a "home ALS" for floating individuals is "suboptimal" and won't be the end of discussion but just a next pragmatic step to improve EURALO's involvement and participation of individuals. Therefore, please move forward into this direction! And let's discuss improved options at the Lisbon GA. What I simply would like to avoid is the pre-EURALO hardcore dispute on *procedures* (2006-07) than on *substance and content* -- I guess, this may ring a bell to you ;-) But I think it's not so much about "ability to vote" and more about *equal opportunities* for people contributing on a regular and reliable level (either formal ALS reps or individuals).

Yes! And remember that the current solution has found consensus at the
EURALO General Assembly in Stockholm in 2012. So it's full green light
ahead. Please get this ship sailing!

>> Travel to Lisbon and invitation of guest speakers
>> Following up to the discussion on the chat about Olivier participating to
>> the EURALO GA, while I could share the astonishment of Oksana about the ALAC
>> Chair not been funded for the trip, I have to admit that the rules are
>> fairly clear: only delegates from the ALSes will be funded. This is
>> connected to the participation of guest speakers: this requires additional
>> funding.
> (WL) I always said, Olivier's participation as ALAC Chair at our GA is *indispensable" and I thought this question was solved tonight (as I am funded for Lisbon by EuroDIG, I offered "my" travel slot to Olivier to ensure his participation). Whether such funding rules could be improved is another question but can't be changed until next summer for sure.

I'll do a "mea culpa" on this since I have still not managed to get my
organisation, ISOC England, so apply as an At-Large Structure. Long
story. We are still in the process of getting all parts of our "house"
in order and I feel it would distract the structure if it focussed on
ICANN at the moment when there are several things it needs to focus on
at home.

I am thankful to Wolf for having given up his space for me.
For the record, I attended the Stockholm EURODIG on my own costs. In
fact, ICANN never paid for my travels to EURODIG, whether in Geneva,
Madrid nor in Belgrade. This is all to do with the fact that travel
funding would need to be asked by the RALO as an additional request and
until this year, such requests were refused. Now this year is very
innovative since a GA was funded to take place at EuroDIG. Wolf has very
well explained the point in his reply to you. This is a real shift by
ICANN to start funding such activities. I also think that this year
there will be a further shift and for future years too. At-Large is not
considered a waste of time/money by the Board any more.

>> Incidentally, as I commented on the chat, Francisco da Silva, TLG Liaison to
>> the ICANN Board, is based in Lisbon. Besides having another Board member as
>> keynote speaker, we could invite Francisco as well, at zero cost, and maybe
>> dedicate some time of our AGM to the communication between ALAC and the
>> technical community, of which the TLG is a component.
> (WL) I am much in favor of inviting a "guest speaker" to our GA (Sébastien wouldn't be a guest at EURALO but a founding member ;-) and let's reflect about and suggest wishful candidates. But what I really would like to avoid is a "row of eminences" (like at other RALO GAs in the past) or the usual "show cases" where NO space and time is left for our own community discussions and interaction -- what is a top priority to me at the moment!

I think that in any case, whether it is during the GA or during the rest
of EuroDIG, we should invite Francisco to attend. He is a great guy and
since he is from industry, he might also be able to open the door to
more sponsors for our activities in the future. We should also ask for
Nigel Hickson, VP for Europe (based in Brussels), to attend too, since
EuroDIG is becoming such an important forum. And perhaps should Sally
Costerton, VP for Global Stakeholder engagement (based in London &
Brussels) also be there, to witness the wide scope of our ALSes. Note
that I am not saying they should be speakers or make a speech, but I
think they should be in attendance. Witnessing the bottom-up process.

>> ICANN Regions
>> The main reason why ICANN has regions is for Board elections. And the ICANN
>> Board will never use an arbitrary designation of regions, to avoid problems.
>> So, it will stick as much as possible with the UN Statistics definition,
>> with minor adjustments only in the case of some powerful voice yelling loud.
>> If this happens, we find ourselves with things like some Pacific Islands
>> being in Europe.

Huge discussion which we have already contributed to, but it looks as
though nothing is moving from the Board and until the Board moves on
this, we are tied to the current regions. We cannot change the regions
to our liking.

For your information, the ICANN Geographic Regions WG page is on:

The ALAC submitted a statement based on the input from many, including

The At-Large Workspace which led to this statement had a LOT of input
from all our regions:

The battle for geo-regions is therefore behind us. But we are all
expecting the Board to *do something*.
But the Board has been busy with new gTLDs, no as far as I know, there
has been no decision made so far. Would anyone like me to raise this
with Staff to find out what has happened for the past year?

>> As a side note, I will most probably be in the Caucasus area around the
>> second half of May, I will be ready to spend some time in visiting the ALSes
>> and ccTLDs in the region. I believe we have an ALS in Armenia and one in
>> Azerbaijan, but none in Georgia.

Two in Armenia (ISOC Armenia & Media Education Center). There might even
be a third one in Armenia soon!

Kindest regards,


Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD

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