Hello All,<div><br /></div><div>Thank you all for your answers and time to clearify. It gives me as a newbie much insight.</div><div><br /></div><div>Change isn't easy, but one should not be scared by it. Perfectionism in a multi stakeholder enviroment will take time and effort by us all.</div><div><br /></div><div>Th next 20 years will be very important in the future of the open internet. Various commercial and criminal forces are working hard to grab a piece of the pie. Transparency and accountability should make the past transition succesful, and future generations should be able to use the internet as we experienced it.</div><div><br /></div><div>Have a nice evening,</div><div><br /></div><div>Remo Hardeman</div><div><br /><br /><br /><br />04.10.2016, 20:59, "Christopher Wilkinson" <cw@christopherwilkinson.eu>:<br /><blockquote type="cite"><div>Good evening:<div><br /></div><div>Allow me a few comments on this discussion. I am aware of the nature of Eberhard's concerns and have thought about them, over the years.</div><div>indeed, the NTIA authority over (a specific part of) ICANN Governance caused an irritating a-symmetry in the relationships among countries and stakeholders.</div><div>However, this was tolerated in practice precisely because the diplomatic back-stop existed. Also experience confirmed that NTIA exercised their authority in an acceptable manner.</div><div><br /></div><div>Notwithstanding, the long-standing EU position has been that unilateral US control over the Internet Root was inappropriate and should be relinquished.</div><div><br /></div><div>Now, if we jump twenty years to the decision last Friday night, we hit Eberhard's three criticisms:</div><div><br /></div><div><i>> <span style="white-space:pre;"> </span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">lack of transparency, </span></i></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><br /></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">Here I do not agree. There is plenty of transparency, but it is not very well organised and impenetrable to newcomers. Examples:</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><br /></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">-<span style="white-space:pre;"> </span>IANA: the legal </span>texts (contracts, agreements and formal letters) between ICANN, the PTI, the IETF Trust and the CCG, run to about 70 pages. How many of us have read them all?</div><div><br /></div><div>-<span style="white-space:pre;"> </span>Mailing Lists: I was recently criticised for not having read a document posted for public comment one fine day last August. When I checked my inbox I found that on that particular day I had received 48 messages from the CWG List alone. Only a fraction of E-Mail traffic is really a priority. But which fraction?</div><div><br /></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><i>><span style="white-space:pre;"> </span> lack of democracy </i></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><br /></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">Well, not really: the ICANN system is less difficult to penetrate and influence than many 'democratic' national institutions. </span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">As a global institution ICANN is far more democratic than most of the other international fora.</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><br /></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">However, democracy only works credibly if there is a high level of participation. Currently, unless all stakeholders (SO/ACs among others) participate, then power will drift to the 'power of the pen' and to those few highly motivated individuals who endeavour, no doubt with the best of intentions, to design the future system to their own </span>satisfaction.</div><div>Added to which the substantial economic turnover that is taking place within the domain name system is giving rise to perverse incentives. </div><div><br /></div><div>In view of the limited governmental power over public policy in ICANN, it is becoming quite important that the non-commercial participants and representatives of users' interests act effectively to ensure that decisions are taken democratically and in the public interest. Otherwise the multistakeholder system of governance could easily drift, by default, into an unacceptable level of collusion among a few economic interests.</div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><br /></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><i>> <span style="white-space:pre;"> </span>and a lack of accountabilit</i>y</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><br /></span></div><div>Most of the work to date in CCWG has been about strengthening the accountability of ICANN (particularly the Board) to the community (now known as the Empowered Community - EC).</div><div>So far so good, if sometimes over the top. But the next accountability issue is different. The transition has created a large handful of new entities with their own membership and structure, <i>to</i> implement <i>inter alia </i>the accountability obtained by the Enhanced Community. Thus there is an PTI Board, there are Co Chairs and Representatives in the CCG, there will be delegates from the SO/ACs to the EC etc. </div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><i><br /></i></span></div><div>In the WS2 subgroup on SO/AC accountability, I have stressed that the principal issue today, after the transition, is the accountability of those delegates and representatives in each of the new entities to their 'home' constituency and to the Internet community as a whole.</div><div><br /></div><div>So, Eberhard, I can follow you half the way but not all the way. Furthermore, 'diplomatic pressure' is not always well informed or even benign.</div><div><br /></div><div>Regards</div><div><br /></div><div>CW</div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><i><br /></i></span></div><div><div><div>On 04 Oct 2016, at 12:35, Eberhard Blocher <<a href="mailto:director@ourtanzania.com">director@ourtanzania.com</a>> wrote:</div><br /><blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Hello Remo, Roberto and all,<br />
<br />
please excuse the perceived lack of explanation. I have personally
been to quite a few ICANN meetings, to IGF and (German language)
DomainPulse, and similar meetings for more than 10 years, so this
is the background of the observation I made. I really thought what
I wrote was quite clear, but apparently, judging from what you are
writing, this doesn't seem to be the case.<br />
<br />
The IANA Stewardship Transition has led to IANA administration
being de-politicized, and this, to me, is a big step in the wrong
direction.<br />
<br />
This year in February, large parts of our communitiy met in
Lausanne, Switzerland, for the annual DomainPulse conference. At
that meeting, Thomas Rickert, who is one of the most important
people working in the CCWG, described the IANA Stewardship
Transition in great detail, since most of it had been thoroughly
discussed and was basically agreed on, at the time. I don't think
there have been any major changes in recent months. Thomas made it
quite clear that what the CCWG had been creating, for ICANN, was a
model "United Nations" or a model "country", with all the basic
elements in place: Executive, legal and judicial branches. Checks
and balances were put in place, even the possibility for the ICANN
board to be forced to step down if they should abuse the power
bestowed upon them. However, what the CCWG did create was just a
"model" country, not the real thing.<br />
<br />
So basically, in my opinion, there is a lack of transparency, a
lack of democracy and a lack of accountability in this ICANN
multi-stakeholder modell, which is supposed to govern IANA in
future.<br />
<br />
Just consider what was there before, i.e. up to September 30th.
The DoC, i.e. NTIA, had all the power. What would have happened if
they had abused this power, for example, deleting a TLD from the
root? Something which never happened, of course, but it could have
happened. Well, in that case, diplomatic pressure could have been
put upon the US Government. For example, imagine the NTIA deleting
the .DE zone from the root. In that case, the American Ambassodor
to Germany could have been summoned to report to the German
Government, and Lawrence E. Strickling would certainly have had to
justify his actions. This is a huge amount of power that the
German Government, or any government affected, could have applied.<br />
<br />
Now imagine what would happen in future if ICANN decided to delete
any zone from the root. All that would remain to be done would be
sending a letter to Göran Marby, or to Steve Crocker. And then,
you would have to sit back and hope and pray that one of them will
answer the letter of complaint. There is no way any foreign
government, or indeed anyone who is not an American citizen, could
apply any direct power to Mr Marby or Mr Crocker. ICANN is a
private sector company incorporated in California. There is
nothing anyone can do about this.<br />
<br />
Therefore, October 1st, the IANA Stewardship Transition, was a
very sad day for the Internet we know and cherish.<br />
<br />
<pre cols="72">Eberhard Blocher
EAHP KG
P.O. Box 30 03 26
50773 Köln
Germany
<a href="http://www.eahp.com/">http://www.eahp.com</a>
Tel. <span><a dir="ltr" href="tel:+49-221-9139535" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="5/0">+49-221-9139535</a></span>
Fax <span><a dir="ltr" href="tel:+49-221-2711016" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="5/1">+49-221-2711016</a></span>
<a href="http://cla.tel/">http://cla.tel</a></pre>
Am 04.10.2016 11:39, schrieb Remo Hardeman:<br />
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:4056631475573946@web10h.yandex.ru" type="cite">Hello
All,
<div><br />
</div>
<div>Hello Eberhard,</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>As in all discussions, please explain. In my humble Point of
view, I seriously doubt that a more democratic approach would be
harmful to "the rest of us"</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>Kind regards,</div>
<div><br />
</div>
<div>Remo Hardeman<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
03.10.2016, 20:19, "Roberto Gaetano"
<a href="mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com"><roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com></a>:<br />
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="IT">
<div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">Hi Eberhard.</span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">You say:</span></p><p><span lang="EN-US">The new IANA Stewardship is good
news for all US citizens who "know", and bad news for
everybody else, mainly for those not being a US
citizen, all over the world</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">Can you give a hint on why do you believe
that?</span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">In particular, being myself a non-US
citizens, I don’t understand how US Government
withdrawal from what was only the right of veto to
changes to the DNS Root will diminish my power and
rights.</span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">Cheers,</span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">Roberto</span></p><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span><br /></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span><br /></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span><br /></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span><br /></div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1pt;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;"><p><b><span>Da:</span></b><span> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org">euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org">euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>]
<b>Per conto di </b>Eberhard Blocher<br />
<b>Inviato:</b> domenica 2 ottobre 2016 07:09<br />
<b>A:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org">euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br />
<b>Oggetto:</b> Re: [EURO-Discuss] Announcement
on IANA Stewardship Transition (Rinalia Abdul
Rahim)</span></p>
</div>
</div><div> <br /></div>
<div><p style="margin-bottom:12pt;">October 1st marks a sad
day for the Internet. With IANA Stewardship
transitioning from the NTIA to the ICANN
multi-stakeholder community, the internet now is
less transparent, less democratic and less
accountable.</p><p style="text-align:center;" align="center"><b><span style="font-size:18pt;">I</span></b><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;">N</span></b><b><span style="font-size:18pt;"> CONGRESS, J</span></b><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;">ULY 4, 1776</span></b></p><p>it was declared<br />
<br />
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all
men are created equal, that they are endowed by
their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
Happiness. — That to secure these rights,
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their
just powers from the consent of the governed, — That
whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
of these ends, it is the Right of the People to
alter or to abolish it, and to institute new
Government (...)<br />
<br />
NTIA being part of the US Government, means,
following closely the US Declaration of
Independence, that if it had become destructive of
anything at all regarding the oversight of the IANA
functions, there would have been procedures,
established for 240 years, to alter or to abolish
it. <br />
<br />
Now, with the new multi-stakeholder model in place
for the oversight of the IANA function, all this has
been discarded. How long will it take for the rest
of the world to realize this? The new IANA
Stewardship is good news for all US citizens who
"know", and bad news for everybody else, mainly for
those not being a US citizen, all over the world.
</p>
<pre>Eberhard Blocher</pre>
<pre>EAHP KG</pre>
<pre>P.O. Box 30 03 26</pre>
<pre>50773 Köln</pre>
<pre>Germany</pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.eahp.com/">http://www.eahp.com</a></pre>
<pre>Tel. <a moz-do-not-send="true" dir="ltr" href="tel:+49-221-9139535" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="7/0">+49-221-9139535</a></pre>
<pre>Fax <a moz-do-not-send="true" dir="ltr" href="tel:+49-221-2711016" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="7/1">+49-221-2711016</a></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://cla.tel/">http://cla.tel</a></pre>
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</div>
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