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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Jean-Jacques,<br>
<br>
feeling flattered by your long and concise response, I would like
to add to my former posting, which I have to admit was not always
clearly worded by me<br>
<br>
a) Thomas Rickert, at DomainPulse in Lausanne, didn't actually
refer to a United Nations model; rather, this was my perception
only. If I remember correctly, he did in fact use the term
"virtual country", like you pointed out, for the future governing
of ICANN and the IANA function. Please ask someone familiar with
the teachings of Dr. Sigmund Freud why I included a reference to
the UN <span class="moz-smiley-s3"><span> ;-) </span></span><br>
<br>
b) I want to agree with you that I do assume the only effective
control is the one that has been in place for centuries, i.e. a
system of rules and sanctions enforced by the "powers that be".
You understood me correctly in this respect.<br>
<br>
I do treasure the multi-stakeholder model I got to know at ICANN,
since this means I am able to stand in line with someone as
distinguished as Dr. Steve Crocker (before he became Chair of the
ICANN board), and feel similarly respected as he is, although he
has lots more experience and contributed much more to the Global
Internet than I did, or am likely to ever contribute. <br>
<br>
Having said this, I am not a believer in the multi-stakeholder
model as the one and only perfect solution to the future
challenges the administration of the Internet will pose.<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
Eberhard<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Eberhard Blocher
EAHP KG
P.O. Box 30 03 26
50773 Köln
Germany
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eahp.com">http://www.eahp.com</a>
Tel. +49-221-9139535
Fax +49-221-2711016
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://cla.tel">http://cla.tel</a></pre>
Am 04.10.2016 17:39, schrieb Jean-Jacques Subrenat:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:etPan.57f3cd45.59a9be70.307@dyalog.net"
type="cite">
<style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>
<div id="bloop_customfont"
style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">Hello
Eberhard,</div>
<div id="bloop_customfont"
style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br>
</div>
<div id="bloop_customfont"
style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">having
carefully read your email, with respect I think some of the
points you make need to be clarified, or put into context.</div>
<div id="bloop_customfont"
style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br>
</div>
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style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
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</div>
<div id="bloop_customfont"
style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">1) Your first
assumption is that the only effective control is the one that
has been in place for centuries, i.e. a system of rules and
sanctions enforced solely by sovereign states, or religious
powers. Sanctions could range from temporary severance of
diplomatic relations to full-fledged war, and the generations
before us suffered many of those. </div>
<div id="bloop_customfont"
style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br>
</div>
<div id="bloop_customfont"
style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">Your remark
that « the IANA administration (is) being de-politicized » is
partly correct, if your definition of « politics » applies to
sovereign states, national governments or political parties.
However, one of the truly interesting features of the Transition
of Oversight of the IANA Functions, as suggested by our global
communities and assembled by us in the ICG, is that the
oversight will be a shared responsibility between various
categories of stakeholders, instead of only sovereign states.
Admittedly, this is a novel construct, and in its short history
it has not been fully tested. You are right in suggesting that
there is no proof of its effectiveness. That is why the proposal
for Transition of Oversight includes several layers and
mechanisms of reporting and control, in keeping with the call
for improved transparency and accountability which has been
voiced more loudly in recent years.</div>
<div id="bloop_customfont"
style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br>
</div>
<div id="bloop_customfont"
style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br>
</div>
<div id="bloop_customfont"
style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">2) Your second
point, with reference to a meeting in Lausanne, is that</div>
<div id="bloop_customfont"
style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color:
rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq" style="font-family:
Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
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0px;">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">"the CCWG had been creating,
for ICANN, a model "United Nations" or a model
"country", with all the basic elements in place:
Executive, legal and judicial branches »</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
</div>
As I did not attend that meeting in Lausanne, I am not able to
support or disprove your quote. However, allow me to point out
that the Proposal for Transition of Oversight, on which the NTIA
grounded its decision to let expire the IANA contract on 1st
October 2016, is PRECISELY NOT a « United Nations » model:
<div><br>
<div>- the members of the UN are EXCLUSIVELY sovereign states,
even though other stakeholders may have representation in some
UN auxiliary bodies, such as the Economic & Social
Council; </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- I leave it to the Co-Chairs of the CCWG to give you the
proper wording, but I’m pretty sure they did not propose
setting up a « model country » (I suppose you mean a « virtual
country »).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3) Your third point is that the transition of oversight of
the IANA Functions leaves the global Internet community
defenseless. As I mentioned above (1), "That is why the
proposal for Transition of Oversight includes several layers
and mechanisms of reporting and control, in keeping with the
call for improved transparency and accountability which has
been voiced more loudly in recent years. » These complex
mechanisms constitute an array of checks and balances, which
our global Internet community must now use, in order to test
their effectiveness and durability.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A last remark, if I may: there is no predetermined
« direction of history », and this is also true for our global
Internet: more than in the first decades of ICANN, it is now
the privilege, indeed the duty, of each community member to
remain vigilant, and to contribute in a meaningful way to the
consolidation of this unique Internet, which I call « the
first truly universal infrastructure in history ».</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Jean-Jacques.</div>
<div>
<p class="airmail_on"><br>
</p>
<p class="airmail_on"><br>
</p>
<p class="airmail_on"><br>
</p>
<p class="airmail_on">On 4 octobre 2016 at 12:38:12, Eberhard
Blocher (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:director@ourtanzania.com">director@ourtanzania.com</a>)
wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq"><span>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>
<title></title>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello Remo, Roberto and
all,<br>
<br>
please excuse the perceived lack of explanation. I
have personally
been to quite a few ICANN meetings, to IGF and
(German language)
DomainPulse, and similar meetings for more than 10
years, so this
is the background of the observation I made. I
really thought what
I wrote was quite clear, but apparently, judging
from what you are
writing, this doesn't seem to be the case.<br>
<br>
The IANA Stewardship Transition has led to IANA
administration
being de-politicized, and this, to me, is a big step
in the wrong
direction.<br>
<br>
This year in February, large parts of our communitiy
met in
Lausanne, Switzerland, for the annual DomainPulse
conference. At
that meeting, Thomas Rickert, who is one of the most
important
people working in the CCWG, described the IANA
Stewardship
Transition in great detail, since most of it had
been thoroughly
discussed and was basically agreed on, at the time.
I don't think
there have been any major changes in recent months.
Thomas made it
quite clear that what the CCWG had been creating,
for ICANN, was a
model "United Nations" or a model "country", with
all the basic
elements in place: Executive, legal and judicial
branches. Checks
and balances were put in place, even the possibility
for the ICANN
board to be forced to step down if they should abuse
the power
bestowed upon them. However, what the CCWG did
create was just a
"model" country, not the real thing.<br>
<br>
So basically, in my opinion, there is a lack of
transparency, a
lack of democracy and a lack of accountability in
this ICANN
multi-stakeholder modell, which is supposed to
govern IANA in
future.<br>
<br>
Just consider what was there before, i.e. up to
September 30th. The
DoC, i.e. NTIA, had all the power. What would have
happened if they
had abused this power, for example, deleting a TLD
from the root?
Something which never happened, of course, but it
could have
happened. Well, in that case, diplomatic pressure
could have been
put upon the US Government. For example, imagine the
NTIA deleting
the .DE zone from the root. In that case, the
American Ambassodor
to Germany could have been summoned to report to the
German
Government, and Lawrence E. Strickling would
certainly have had to
justify his actions. This is a huge amount of power
that the German
Government, or any government affected, could have
applied.<br>
<br>
Now imagine what would happen in future if ICANN
decided to delete
any zone from the root. All that would remain to be
done would be
sending a letter to Göran Marby, or to Steve
Crocker. And then, you
would have to sit back and hope and pray that one of
them will
answer the letter of complaint. There is no way any
foreign
government, or indeed anyone who is not an American
citizen, could
apply any direct power to Mr Marby or Mr Crocker.
ICANN is a
private sector company incorporated in California.
There is nothing
anyone can do about this.<br>
<br>
Therefore, October 1st, the IANA Stewardship
Transition, was a very
sad day for the Internet we know and cherish.<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Eberhard Blocher
EAHP KG
P.O. Box 30 03 26
50773 Köln
Germany
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eahp.com">http://www.eahp.com</a>
Tel. +49-221-9139535
Fax +49-221-2711016
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://cla.tel">http://cla.tel</a></pre>
Am 04.10.2016 11:39, schrieb Remo Hardeman:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:4056631475573946@web10h.yandex.ru"
type="cite">Hello All,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hello Eberhard,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As in all discussions, please explain. In my
humble Point of
view, I seriously doubt that a more democratic
approach would be
harmful to "the rest of us"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kind regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Remo Hardeman<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
03.10.2016, 20:19, "Roberto Gaetano" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com"><roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com></a>:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple"
xml:lang="IT" lang="IT">
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"
xml:lang="EN-US" lang="EN-US">Hi
Eberhard.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"
xml:lang="EN-US" lang="EN-US">You say:</span></p>
<p><span xml:lang="EN-US" lang="EN-US">The
new IANA Stewardship is
good news for all US citizens who
"know", and bad news for
everybody else, mainly for those not
being a US citizen, all over
the world</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"
xml:lang="EN-US" lang="EN-US">Can you
give a hint on why do you
believe that?</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"
xml:lang="EN-US" lang="EN-US">In
particular, being myself a non-US
citizens, I don’t understand how US
Government withdrawal from what
was only the right of veto to changes to
the DNS Root will diminish
my power and rights.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"
xml:lang="EN-US" lang="EN-US">Cheers,</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"
xml:lang="EN-US" lang="EN-US">Roberto</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"
xml:lang="EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"
xml:lang="EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"
xml:lang="EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"
xml:lang="EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid
blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#B5C4DF 1pt;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;">
<p><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI",sans-serif;color:windowtext;">
Da:</span></b> <span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Segoe
UI",sans-serif;color:windowtext;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org">euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org">euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>]
<b>Per conto di</b> Eberhard
Blocher<br>
<b>Inviato:</b> domenica 2 ottobre
2016 07:09<br>
<b>A:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org">euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> Re: [EURO-Discuss]
Announcement on IANA Stewardship
Transition (Rinalia Abdul Rahim)</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt;">October
1st marks a sad day for the
Internet. With IANA Stewardship
transitioning from the NTIA to the
ICANN multi-stakeholder community, the
internet now is less
transparent, less democratic and less
accountable.</p>
<p style="text-align:center;"
align="center"><b><span
style="font-size:18pt;">I</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;">N</span></b>
<b><span style="font-size:18pt;">CONGRESS,
J</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;">ULY 4,
1776</span></b></p>
<p>it was declared<br>
<br>
We hold these truths to be
self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their
Creator with certain
unalienable Rights, that among these
are Life, Liberty and the
pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure
these rights, Governments
are instituted among Men, deriving
their just powers from the
consent of the governed, — That
whenever any Form of Government
becomes destructive of these ends, it
is the Right of the People to
alter or to abolish it, and to
institute new Government (...)<br>
<br>
NTIA being part of the US Government,
means, following closely the
US Declaration of Independence, that
if it had become destructive
of anything at all regarding the
oversight of the IANA functions,
there would have been procedures,
established for 240 years, to
alter or to abolish it.<br>
<br>
Now, with the new multi-stakeholder
model in place for the
oversight of the IANA function, all
this has been discarded. How
long will it take for the rest of the
world to realize this? The
new IANA Stewardship is good news for
all US citizens who "know",
and bad news for everybody else,
mainly for those not being a US
citizen, all over the world.</p>
<pre>Eberhard Blocher</pre>
<pre>EAHP KG</pre>
<pre>P.O. Box 30 03 26</pre>
<pre>50773 Köln</pre>
<pre>Germany</pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.eahp.com">http://www.eahp.com</a></pre>
<pre>Tel. <a moz-do-not-send="true" dir="ltr" href="tel:+49-221-9139535" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="7/0">+49-221-9139535</a></pre>
<pre>Fax <a moz-do-not-send="true" dir="ltr" href="tel:+49-221-2711016" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="7/1">+49-221-2711016</a></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://cla.tel">http://cla.tel</a></pre>
</div>
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