[EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?

Wilkinson mail at christopherwilkinson.eu
Sat Mar 3 22:48:39 UTC 2018 

> 
> Dear Nenad:	Roberto is right about this. I would add that the original regime facilitated neutrality of Registrars among Registries. I am not sure that is still valid since there are now hundreds of Registries some of which are still very small, and it is unlikely that all Registrars will offer all available Registries.
> 
> Furthermore, the ICANN version of ‘vertical integration’ for new gTLDs, now allows Registrars to OWN Registries. (I opposed that at the time). I now fear that it is very likely that some Registrars will privilege the Registries that they own. A by-product of that anti-competitive change has been that some ccTLD Registries have indeed argued that they should now be allowed to act as their own Registrar, since they no longer trust the neutrality of their ‘independent’ Registrars.
> 
> I hope that this is helpful
> 
> Regards
> 
> Christopher
> 
> 
>> On 3 Mar 2018, at 17:34, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Nenad.
>> I was planning to reply to you, but I can’t remember if I did - and I do not see track of it in my email logs. If I have already responded, please ignore this second message.
>> The reason why registries do not sell domains directly is because the main reason why ICANN was created is to foster competition. This has been pretty effective, I should say, because before the introduction of registrars 20 years ago a .com domain name was costing $50 - including a $15 tax intended for Internet development. After the breaking of the NetSol monopoly (the ancestor of Verisign) the price dropped to around $7. That went to the benefit of the registrants.
>> Going back to the old regime would also eliminate the variety of commercial proposals that the registrars offer to the market. In summary, the presence of an additional layer, the registrars, could seem to be a useless overhead but is as a matter of fact an essential element for the variety of the offers on the market and for the improvement of the consumer choice.
>> Cheers,
>> Roberto
>> 
>> 
>>> On 23.02.2018, at 15:58, Nenad Marinkovic <nenad at marinkovic.rs <mailto:nenad at marinkovic.rs>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well, I do not know why ICANN and registries  do not sell domains only directly  through e-shop, but endusers have to pay registrars who sell them on their web J
>>>  
>>> Pozdrav/regards
>>>  
>>> Nenad
>>>  
>>> From: EURO-Discuss [mailto:euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight
>>> Sent: Friday, 23 February, 2018 14:15
>>> To: Roberto Gaetano
>>> Cc: EURALO Discuss
>>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
>>>  
>>> Well I’d like to see proper data showing the value that the investment has brought.
>>> I also wonder why on earth ICANN funds so many people to attend non-ICANN events 
>>>  
>>> --
>>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>> Blacknight Solutions
>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>> https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://www.blacknight.com/>
>>> https://blacknight.blog/ <https://blacknight.blog/>
>>> https://ceo.hosting/ <https://ceo.hosting/>
>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>> -------------------------------
>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
>>> Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>>> From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com>>
>>> Date: Friday 23 February 2018 at 13:56
>>> To: Michele Neylon <michele at blacknight.com <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>
>>> Cc: S Van Gelder <svg at milathan.ltd <mailto:svg at milathan.ltd>>, Euralo <euro-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>>
>>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
>>>  
>>> Michele, 
>>> I agree with you  - the matter is very complex, that’s why I have difficulties in reducing it to a petition yes/no. What we need to do is to have a deeper analysis on the budget and the priorities. 
>>> This said, my gut feeling is that the cuts do not apply in a fair way neither geopolitically nor by stakeholder type. But this is a consequence of he fact that there is no discussion about the priorities. The big question is whether outreach, in particular towards the less represented stakeholder (Internet users), is a priority and whether geopolitical representation is a priority. If we fail to stand up and bringing this issue to the table, with data and convincing arguments and not just gut feeling or self-serving arguments, then we cannot complain.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Roberto
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>>> On 23.02.2018, at 13:11, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> Roberto
>>>> 
>>>> There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a load of different programmes but has very little data to measure the ROI / KPIs etc
>>>>  
>>>> If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic.
>>>>  
>>>> There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does not have.
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> Regards
>>>>  
>>>> Michele
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> --
>>>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>>> Blacknight Solutions
>>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>>> https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://www.blacknight.com/>
>>>> https://blacknight.blog/ <https://blacknight.blog/>
>>>> https://ceo.hosting/ <https://ceo.hosting/>
>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
>>>> Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>>>> From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com>>
>>>> Date: Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07
>>>> To: S Van Gelder <svg at milathan.ltd <mailto:svg at milathan.ltd>>
>>>> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
>>>>  
>>>> My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others. <>
>>>> Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”.
>>>> Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Roberto
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg at milathan.ltd <mailto:svg at milathan.ltd>> wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>> Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature.
>>>>>  
>>>>> If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>  
>>>>> Stéphane 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei at rol.ru <mailto:andrei at rol.ru>> wrote:
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> I'm against signing any petition onchange.org <http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community  is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com <mailto:ocl at gih.com>>:
>>>>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>> Olivier Crepin-Leblond <https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!"
>>>>>>> On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition:
>>>>>>> https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fellowship-program <https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fellowship-program>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Should EURALO sign the petition?
>>>>>>> Should your ALS sign the petition? 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Kindest regards,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
>>>>>>> EURALO Chair
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> EURO-Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> EURO-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:EURO-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
>>>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss <https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org <http://www.euralo.org/>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Andrey Kolesnikov
>>>>>> RIPN.NET <http://ripn.net/>
>>>>>>  
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>>>>>  
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