[EURO-Discuss] R: R: R: Trip to Caucasus - Chapter 3 - Georgia

Nigel Hickson nigel.hickson at icann.org
Wed Jul 10 16:04:52 UTC 2013


Yes indeed.  The Economist have been right about himŠ.it is no laughing
matter to watch Italian politics. Best; Nigel



On 7/10/13 5:55 PM, "Roberto Gaetano" <roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com> wrote:

>Unfortunately, there's not much to laugh about.
>The latest news are that the Berlusconian minister of the interiors,
>Angelino Alfano, sent 50 (!!!) policemen to take Alma Shalabayeva, wife
>of a
>Kazak dissident, and her daughter, who were in Rome, and embarked them on
>a
>Kazak plane to repatriate them to Kazakhstan, where they are facing prison
>and torture. They were accused to be in possession of counterfeited
>passports. The judges later established that the passports were perfectly
>valid, but the women were already back in Kazakhstan.
>The Kazak president is a good friend of Berlusconi, who praised him on
>several occasions, also referring to the supposed "demonstrated manhood"
>of
>his and the Kazak population.
>The Italian prime minister is expected to report today or tomorrow to the
>Parliament about the scandal. He claimed that neither him, nor the other
>ministers potentially involved (like the Foreign Affairs minister Emma
>Bonino, a radical and human rights defender) were even informed, which is
>most probably true.
>Not surprisingly, this case is having little coverage by most of the
>Italian
>press.
>R.
>
>
>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> Da: euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:euro-discuss-
>> bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] Per conto di "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
>> Inviato: mercoledì 10 luglio 2013 17:16
>> A: Discussion for At-Large Europe; Discussion for At-Large Europe
>> Oggetto: Re: [EURO-Discuss] R: R: Trip to Caucasus - Chapter 3 - Georgia
>> 
>> Isn´t Berlusconi-Land over? :-)))
>> 
>> w
>> 
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> 
>> Von: euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org im Auftrag von Roberto
>> Gaetano
>> Gesendet: Mi 10.07.2013 16:42
>> An: 'Discussion for At-Large Europe'
>> Betreff: [EURO-Discuss] R: R: Trip to Caucasus - Chapter 3 - Georgia
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Wolf,
>> Obviously my appreciation error.
>> However, my answer was in comparison with other places where I did
>> experience restriction on media, like in Turkey (that was, however, not
>part
>> of my report).
>> Also, what I could observe was only a limited part of free expression,
>i.e.
>> internet censorship: I could not appreciate other aspects, like for
>instance
>> the role of the government in controlling the printed press.
>> Reporters without Borders have obviously a much wider and better view,
>>so
>I
>> stand corrected.
>> R.
>> 
>> PS: I also note that in the world chart they provide Georgia is marked
>>in
>> orange, in the same category of Italy, so you might also say that this
>>is
>the
>> reason why I found nothing abnormal about it!
>>  :>)
>> 
>> 
>> > -----Messaggio originale-----
>> > Da: euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:euro-discuss-
>> > bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] Per conto di Wolf Ludwig
>> > Inviato: mercoledì 10 luglio 2013 16:20
>> > A: Discussion for At-Large Europe
>> > Oggetto: Re: [EURO-Discuss] R: Trip to Caucasus - Chapter 3 - Georgia
>> >
>> > Thanks Roberto for these interesting Caucasus reports! Just one remark
>> > on Wolfgang's question on media freedom in Georgia. According to
>> > Reporters without Borders, Georgia ranks on position 100 what doesn't
>> > really prop
>> your
>> > personal impression "I don't believe there is one." See --
>> > http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2013,1054.html
>> >
>> > Best, Wolf
>> >
>> >
>> > Roberto Gaetano wrote Sat, 6 Jul 2013 01:31
>> > >Thanks Wolfgang.
>> > >I stand corrected for the balloon.
>> > >I heard nothing about governmental control of the media, and based on
>> > >my personal impressions, I don't believe there is one.
>> > >About the .ru, I have not checked any site, but I exchanged emails
>> > >with people having email addresses under .ru, and had no problems. I
>> > >am under the impression that the relationship with Russia are
>normalizing.
>> > >The fact that the Russian/Georgian border is now open for all
>> > >nationalities is an indication of this.
>> > >I heard back then about the cable damage, but I had completely
>> > >forgotten about when I was in the Caucasus, and heard nothing about
>> > >it neither in Armenia nor in Georgia.
>> > >Cheers,
>> > >Roberto
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> > >> Da: euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> > >> [mailto:euro-discuss- bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] Per conto di
>> > "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
>> > >> Inviato: venerdì 5 luglio 2013 17:01
>> > >> A: Discussion for At-Large Europe
>> > >> Oggetto: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Trip to Caucasus - Chapter 3 - Georgia
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks Roberto for the very informative report.
>> > >>
>> > >> Did you hear anything about Internet censorship, governmental
>> > >> control of media and the blogosphere in this country? How was the
>> > >> access to the .ru domain, which was stopped during the
>> > >> Georgian-Russian war a couple of years ago? Is there any discussion
>> > >> about the case where the line to
>> > >Armenia
>> > >> was cut (by a digging woman) which led to an Internet blackout in
>> > Jerewan?
>> > >>
>> > >> See you soon
>> > >>
>> > >> wolfgang
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> BTW, the Google project is not with satellites but with balloons
>> > >> http://www.google.com/loon/. Here is an interesting legal question.
>> > >> The balloons are flying 20 km about sea level, that is in the
>> > >> airspace of a
>> > >country.
>> > >> The border line between airspace and outerspace is about 80 km.
>> > >> However, if the balloon is over the ocean (20 km from the coast
>> > >> line of a country)
>> > >it is
>> > >> not under any national jurisdiction. And the Convention of the Law
>> > >> of the
>> > >Sea
>> > >> has no paragraph to regulate this.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> ________________________________
>> > >>
>> > >> Von: euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org im Auftrag von
>> > >> Roberto Gaetano
>> > >> Gesendet: Fr 05.07.2013 14:37
>> > >> An: 'Discussion for At-Large Europe'
>> > >> Betreff: [EURO-Discuss] Trip to Caucasus - Chapter 3 - Georgia
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Hi all.
>> > >>
>> > >> Following up my previous reports on Armenia and Azerbaijan, I would
>> > >> like
>> > >to
>> > >> continue with Georgia. I will also have some final considerations
>> > >> on the region, and some recommendations, but that will be part of a
>> > >> future message.
>> > >>
>> > >> My main contact in the country was Ramaz Kvatadze, from the
>> > >> Georgian Research and Educational Networking Association (GRENA -
>> > >> http://grena.ge/eng/). I had a very good meeting with him, and
>> > >> other short occasional conversations with other folks.
>> > >>
>> > >> The main points that came out from the discussion with Ramaz were
>> > >> (to the best of my recollection, in random order, after validation
>> > >> by
>> Ramaz):
>> > >>
>> > >> ..         There is an ISOC chapter, not member of the At-Large,
>>some
>> > >groups
>> > >> are participating in ISOC Community Grants programmes.
>> > >>
>> > >> ..         The infrastructure is in average good, but there are
>> > >substantial
>> > >> differences between big cities and remote villages.
>> > >>
>> > >> ..         While the main problem in the countryside is
>>connectivity,
>> that
>> > >> must be improved, the main complaint in big cities is compliance of
>> > >> the operators with the promised quality of service.
>> > >>
>> > >> ..         The government has undertaken efforts for developing
>> > >eGovernment,
>> > >> as of today there are many applications that allow citizen and
>> > >organizations to
>> > >> obtain certificates and make declarations online.
>> > >>
>> > >> ..         The scientific and research community is not active on
>ICANN
>> > >> matters because there is no benefit associated to its
>>participation.
>> > >>
>> > >> ..         The scientific and research community has strong
>> collaboration
>> > >> with similar communities in other Caucasus countries as well as
>> > >> other geographical areas worldwide, but the main interest and
>> > >> efforts are
>> > >devoted
>> > >> to cooperation with Europe.
>> > >>
>> > >> ..         Although Georgia feels strongly more European than
>>Asian,
>> the
>> > >> current location in AP as ICANN geographic region is not felt as an
>> > >obstacle.
>> > >> However, the main goal of Georgia is to become real member of
>> > >> European community.
>> > >>
>> > >> ..         The adoption of new technologies (mobile
>telecommunication,
>> > >> internet) have been slowed down initially by the monopoly
>> > >> situation, but now the competition among operators favours rapid
>> > >> development
>> > and
>> > >> strong improvement of the infrastructure.
>> > >>
>> > >> ..         The main obstacle for further improvement of the ICT
>> > >> infrastructure is lack of financial resources, as private business
>> > >> is
>> > >unable to
>> > >> invest in development in rural/mountain areas as these are scarcely
>> > >> populated and there will be not enough return on investment.
>> > >>
>> > >> ..         Georgia has good relationships with both Armenia and
>> > >Azerbaijan,
>> > >> organizing regional meetings in Georgia is easier than in the
>> > >> neighboring countries. In fact almost all regional meetings are
>> organized in
>> > Georgia.
>> > >>
>> > >> To this, I would like to add some personal considerations.
>> > >>
>> > >> I have travelled extensively, in cities and in rural areas, and
>> > >> have found
>> > >fair to
>> > >> good internet connectivity. I have experienced a difference between
>> > >> cities and countryside, which confirms the feedback I had from
>>Ramaz.
>> > >> However, the improvement of the connectivity seems no simple task,
>> > >> and other comments I have gathered from different sources, mainly
>> > >> individual internet users, is that the overall connectivity is not
>> > >> the first
>> > >priority. From a
>> > >> different source, I have learned that Georgia is planning to lay
>> > >> down a
>> > >second
>> > >> backbone cable that should connect east and west Georgia running
>> > >> close to the southern border (unfortunately, I was unable to get
>> > >> confirmation of
>> > >this
>> > >> from other sources). It seems that addressing the risk of a cut in
>> > >> the
>> > >intra-
>> > >> Georgian communication (between east and west Georgia) is a higher
>> > >> priority than addressing the connectivity in remote areas. The
>> > >> reason
>> > >might
>> > >> appear obvious to people who know the recent history and the
>> > >> current threats of the region.
>> > >>
>> > >> I am under the impression that tourism, that is a flourishing
>> > >> business in Georgia, and rightfully so, can be an incentive to the
>> > >> improvement of the internet infrastructure. For instance, my last
>> > >> day was in Batumi,
>> > >touristic area
>> > >> on the Black Sea, close to the border with Turkey. I have found a
>> > >> large number of bars, coffee shops, restaurants, that were offering
>> free
>> > WiFi.
>> > >On
>> > >> the other hand, I compare this with Mestia, in the Svaneti, another
>> > >> place with high touristic potential, but on the Caucasus mountains,
>> > >> where no B&B offered WiFi, and I was unable to find any
>> > >> establishment included it. My assumption was, although it was
>> > >> difficult to verify this with the local
>> > >people,
>> > >> that the limited bandwidth in some areas was the limiting factor.
>> > >> But, as I said, it is just my personal speculation.
>> > >>
>> > >> I had another example of the situation in remote areas travelling
>> > >> to the Tusheti area (in the Caucasus mountains, north-east
>> > >> Georgia). The electric and telephone lines, installed in Soviet
>> > >> times, were abandoned because the cost of maintenance was too high,
>> > >> leaving the whole area without power and connectivity. It has to be
>> > >> said that the road itself to Omalo, the largest
>> > >village
>> > >> in Tusheti, is passable only by 4x4 vehicles and the Abano pass
>> > >> itself is
>> > >closed
>> > >> from October to May because of snow. However, the population got
>> > >> organized: almost every household has solar cells and is therefore
>> > >> autonomous for electrical power, and there are GSM (solar-powered)
>> > >> cells that ensure mobile phone connectivity to the valley. I was
>> > >> impressed by
>> > >this,
>> > >> and thought that this could be an example for other parts of the
>> > >> world, where laying cables is too costly. Incidentally, at about
>> > >> the same time I
>> > >heard
>> > >> the recent news about the experiments on internet connection via
>> > >> satellite in New Zealand, which shows that new ways are being
>> explored.
>> > >>
>> > >> Talking about mobile phones, there seems to be excellent market
>> > >> penetration.
>> > >> While it is true that the monopoly situation has slowed down the
>> > >> progress, my observation, in cities and also in remote areas, is
>> > >> that the initial
>> > >delay has
>> > >> been caught up. There is a wide offer, and if you get a local SIM
>> > >> card you
>> > >can
>> > >> reload it also at ATM-like machines that are widely available for
>> > >different
>> > >> types of payments.
>> > >>
>> > >> The last comment is about the geopolitical collocation of Georgia.
>> > >> I have
>> > >to
>> > >> say that travelling through the country I had the impression to be
>> > >> in
>> > >Europe.
>> > >> Just the signs in Georgian alphabet reminded me that I was in the
>> > >Caucasus.
>> > >> As a matter of fact, this proximity to Europe made me forget to
>> > >> inquiry
>> > >about
>> > >> another topic I wanted to get information on: the need, or not, for
>> IDN.
>> > >> However, I have the feeling that, while this is probably an issue
>> > >> in large
>> > >cities,
>> > >> the main problem in scarcely populated areas remains the
>>connection.
>> > >>
>> > >> Best regards,
>> > >>
>> > >> Roberto
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Additional note for EURALO: we need to seriously think about the
>> > >> regional distribution of the countries. I have seen the latest
>> > >> recommendation
>> > >> (http://www.icann.org/en/news/announcements/announcement-
>> > 22jun13-
>> > >> en.htm),
>> > >> maybe we should have a quick check in Durban about the subject.
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
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>> > >>
>> > >> Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
>> > >> <http://www.euralo.org/> <http://www.euralo.org/>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
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>> > >>
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>> > >> <http://www.euralo.org/>
>> > >
>> > >_______________________________________________
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>> > >
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>> > ><http://www.euralo.org/>
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > EuroDIG Secretariat
>> > http://www.eurodig.org/
>> > mobile +41 79 204 83 87
>> > Skype: Wolf-Ludwig
>> >
>> > EURALO - ICANN's Regional At-Large Organisation http://euralo.org
>> > <http://euralo.org/>
>> >
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>> 
>> 
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>
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