[EURO-Discuss] Regional advice on France at Large application

[JFC Morfin]

Dear all,
since these mails seems to concern france at large, it would be a good 
thing if we could read them properly.
jfc


At 11:31 28/04/2008, Vittorio Bertola wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > EURALO and its board is asked for opinion and advice on new ALS
> > applications in its region. In previous cases our verifications
> > didn't show any difficulties or inconsistencies. Unfortunately in a
> > recent one, the application from France @Large, we face some problems
> > to come up with an unanimous recommendation.
>‚&WVFVBæBFWF­ÆVBfW&­f­6Fons of France at Large's application by
> > the staff and some of the board members showed the following
> > inconsistencies:
>‚§F†RG—Röb÷&væ—6F­öâæB—G2ÖVÖ&W'6†— is rather unclear. In
>H\XØ][Ûˆ›Ü›KÛÛYHÙˆe crucial questions (2 d-e) on the
>\XÚ\][Û‹›ÛHand influence of individual Internet users, are
> > answered with "No". In question 2 f-j it is stated that the
> > applicant/ALS has "no organizations as members" and „ governmental
> > bodies or quasi-governmental bodies as members" neither. That means
> > that the organisational character of the applicant is not evident
>Y\ˆ™\X at ted checks.
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; UTF8ISO-CONVERTED=n; 
>x-avg-checked=avg-ok-63B2E7C
>
>I'm not sure I understand. According to the English application that was
>posted to the EURALO list almost two months ago, in 2 d-e they say the
>exact opposite of what you report, they say that decisions are taken by
>their members. And in 2 e-f they say that they have no organizational
>members and no governmental members, which is a good thing. That's why
>we are asking those questions - to be sure that they are not controlled
>by companies or governments.
>
> > *the membership development,
>€ *the exact activities and
> >
> > *the financing/funding of the applicant.
> >
> > Therefore the Co-Chair and other board members cannot support
>œ˜[˜ÙP\™Ùx &\È\XØ][Ûˆunder consideration of the given
> > information. If there is no objection from other board and EURALO
>Y[X™\œÈKHwith any further reasons to be considered -- we would like
>È™XÛÛ[Y[™›Û‹X\›Ý˜[ÈSP‹‚'H[HHUTSÈ›Ø@rd member, but this is the first 
>time I am asked an
>opinion about this application. Can you explain me how and by whom this
>application was discussed, to come to the recommendation 
>aboveHœ™[Y[X™\ˆH\XØ][Ûˆ™Z[™ÈÜÝed to the EURALO list, but I don't
>remember any comment there. Was there any request to all Board members
>or to the EURALO list for comments? If not, why not? In any case, I am
>forwarding this message to the list so that everyone is informed and we
>can have an open discussion.
>
>In general, we have to be very cautious about rejecting new
>applications, as it might look like a form of capture by the existing
>RALO members. I do not have a final opinion yet, but I have known Jefsey
>Morfin - the France at Large leader - for years, and even if he often has
>very controversial opinions, he exists and he has been participating to
>the At Large since the year 2000, which is more than can be said of
>several accredited ALSes. There should be a clear reason to reject this
>application, not just "we're not sure" or "we don't like him". That's a
>guarantee for a new Ombudsman case.
>
> > Please note that we need to know your opinion within the NEXT 2 DAYS.
>
>Nothing has happened for two months, so why all this hurry now?
>
>Regards,
>--
>vb.                   Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu   <--------
>-------->  finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/  <--------
>
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>EURO-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
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>
>Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org

At 13:22 28/04/2008, Cheryl Langdon-Orr wrote:

>CLO
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vittorio Bertola [mailto:vb at bertola.eu]
>Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:31 PM
>To: Wolf Ludwig
>Cc: Annette Mühlberg; Wolfgang Kleinwächter; Karen Banks; Jeanette 
>Hofmann; Desiree Miloshevic; Sébastien Bachollet; William Drake; 
>Veronica Cretu; Rudi Vansnick; Dr. Christoph Bruch; At-Large Staff; 
>Cheryl Langdon-Orr; Discussion for At-Large Europe
>Subject: Re: Regional advice on France at Large application needed
>
>Wolf Ludwig ha scritto:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > EURALO and its board is asked for opinion and advice on new ALS
> > applications in its region. In previous cases our verifications
> > didn't show any difficulties or inconsistencies. Unfortunately in a
> > recent one, the application from France @Large, we face some problems
> > to come up with an unanimous recommendation.
>
>™\X]Y[™]Z[Y™\šYšXØ][ÛœÈÙˆœ˜[˜ÙP\™Ùx ™s application by
> > the staff and some of the board members showed the following
> > inconsistencies:
>‚§F†RG—e of organisation and its membership is rather unclear. In
>H\XØ][Ûˆ›Ü›KÛÛYHÙˆHܝXÚX[]Y\Ý[ÛœÈ
>2 d-e) on the
>\XÚ\][Û‹›ÛH[™[™›Y[˜ÙHÙˆ[™@vidual Internet users, are
> > answered with "No". In question 2 f-j it is stated that the
> > applicant/ALS has “no organizations as members" and „ governmental
> > bodies or quasi-governmental bodies as members" neither. That means
> > that the organisational character of the applicant is not evident
>Y\ˆ™\X]YÚXÚÜ‹‚'IÛH›Ýsure I understand. According to the English 
>application that was
>posted to the EURALO list almost two months ago, in 2 d-e they say the
>exact opposite of what you report, they say that decisions are taken by
>their members. And in 2 e-f they say that they have no organizational
>members and no governmental members, which is a good thing. That's why
>we are asking those questions - to be sure that they are not controlled
>by companies or governments.
>
> > *the membership development,
>‚§F†RW†7B7F—f—F­Ps and
> >
> > *the financing/funding of the applicant.
> >
> > Therefore the Co-Chair and other board members cannot support
>œ˜[˜ÙP\™Ùx &\È\XØ][Ûˆ[™\ˆÛÛœÚY\˜][ÛˆÀf the given
> > information. If there is no objection from other board and EURALO
>Y[X™\œÈKHÚ][žH\\ˆ™X\Àons to be considered -- we would like
>È™XÛÛ[Y[™›Û‹@approval to ALAC.
>
>I am a EURALO Board member, but this is the first time I am asked an
>opinion about this application. Can you explain me how and by whom this
>application was discussed, to come to the recommendation aboveH
>remember the application being posted to the EURALO list, but I don't
>remember any comment there. Was there any request to all Board members
>or to the EURALO list for comments? If not, why not? In any case, I am
>forwarding this message to the list so that everyone is informed and we
>can have an open discussion.
>
>In general, we have to be very cautious about rejecting new
>applications, as it might look like a form of capture by the existing
>RALO members. I do not have a final opinion yet, but I have known Jefsey
>Morfin - the France at Large leader - for years, and even if he often has
>very controversial opinions, he exists and he has been participating to
>the At Large since the year 2000, which is more than can be said of
>several accredited ALSes. There should be a clear reason to reject this
>application, not just "we're not sure" or "we don't like him". That's a
>guarantee for a new Ombudsman case.
>
> > Please note that we need to know your opinion within the NEXT 2 DAYS.
>
>Nothing has happened for two months, so why all this hurry now?
>
>Regards,
>--
>vb.                   Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu   <--------
>-------->  finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/  <--------
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>EURO-Discuss mailing list
>EURO-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss_atlarge-lists.icann.org
>
>Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org

At 13:50 28/04/2008, Wolf Ludwig wrote:

>Vittorio Bertola wrote Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:31:
> >I'm not sure I understand. According to the English application that was
> >posted to the EURALO list almost two months ago, in 2 d-e they say the
>^XÝÜÜÚ]HÙˆwhat you report, they say that decisions are taken by
> >their members. And in 2 e-f they say that they have no organizational
> >members and no governmental members, which is a good thing. That's why
>ÙH\™H\ÚÚ[™ÈÜÙH]Y\Ý[Àns - to be sure that they are not controlled
> >by companies or governments.
>
>To my knowledge there are two versions of the application DD form:
>1- the one dated March 10, 08 and sent the very day by Matthias and
>2- the one dated March 27, 08 and sent on 4.04.08 by Matthias
>and I am referring to the indications in the later one.
>
> >(...) Can you explain me how and by whom this
> >application was discussed, to come to the recommendation above?
>
>The application was verified and discussed by several board and ALAC 
>members (Jeanette, Annette, Veronica and myself) besides the staff repeatedly
>
> >I remember the application being posted to the EURALO list, but I don't
>™[Y[X™\ˆ[žHÛÀmment there. Was there any request to all Board members
> >or to the EURALO list for commentsYˆ›ÝÚH›ÝÈ‚@s we found several 
> inconsistencies in the application (compared with other 
> applicants), we agreed with the staff to try to get more and 
> detailed information before discussing it "in public". There have 
> been additional contacts by the staff with Jefsey Morfin which 
> unfortunately couldn't bring the clarifications we asked for.
>
> > (...) but I have known Jefsey Morfin - the France at Large leader - 
> for YX\œË[™]™[ˆYˆHٝ[ˆ\È™\žHÛ۝›Ý™\œÚX[Ü@nions, he exists and >he 
> has been participating to the At Large since the year 2000, which 
> is >more than can be said of several accredited ALSes. There should 
> be a clear reason to reject this application, not just "we're not sure"
>
>I stated several reasons in my previous mail which are shared by all 
>those 7 people (mentioned above) who checked the DD form, Website 
>etc. repeatedly.
>
> >or "we don't like him".
>
>Nobody ever said that "we don't like him". I know Jefsey Morfin just 
>from the list so far, others know him much longer as you do. And our 
>opinion on France at Large's application has nothing to do with 
>personal prejudices.
>
> >Nothing has happened for two months, so why all this hurry now?
>
>If you haven't realised anything for two months this does not 
>necessarily mean that "nothing has happened" ­ I find your 
>conclusions rather offensive BTW ­ and it perfectly fits to Juergen 
>Habermap ™ remarks about the "context of interest and perception"!
>
>Regards,
>Wolf
>
>
>
>comunica-ch
>phone +41 79 204 83 87
>Skype: Wolf-Ludwig
>www.comunica-ch.net
>
>http://blog.allmend.ch -
>Digitale Allmend
>
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