[At-Large] U.S. seizure of .ORG domain name
Patrick Vande Walle
patrick at vande-walle.eu
Fri Feb 4 19:26:14 UTC 2011
The Torrentfreak post is incorrect, in that it mentions that Afilias is managing the TLD. Afilias is only the backend provider. It does not take any decisions about which .org domains to takedown or not.
Further, Afilias is a registered company in Ireland, and not in the US. It only executes what PIR tells them to do.
I have received a direct confirmation from PIR that the takedown notice was delivered to them, at their headquarters in Reston, VA.
There was no way for them to avoid executing the court decision.
Patrick
On 04 Feb 2011, at 10:20, Cintra Sooknanan wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> This is particularly in response to Evan and Dev's emails.
>
> According to TorrentFreak Article at
> http://torrentfreak.com/us-resume-file-sharing-domain-seizures-110201/
>
> " The site is owned by a Spanish company that pays its taxes and has been
> declared to operate legally in Spain. In addition, the site is not hosted in
> the US either. The only connection to the US is that the .org domain is
> maintained <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afilias> by a US company.
>
> This indirect connection to the US makes the seizure a dubious action,
> according to Rojadirecta’s owner. “In our opinion the US authorities are
> completely despising the Spanish justice system and sovereignty,” Seoane
> told TorrentFreak...
>
> Despite losing the .org domain, Rojadirecta can still be accessed via
> rojadirecta.com, rojadirecta.es, rojadirecta.me, rojadirecta.in. The latter
> two domains are interestingly enough maintained by the same company as the
> .org domain, but Rojadirecta ensures us that they have many other domains
> that are not controlled by US authorities or companies.
>
> The seizure of Rojadirecta shows that commercial interests are high on the
> agenda of the US Government. Seizing a domain that has been specifically
> declared to operate legally in other countries does not appear to be an
> obstacle. In this light, one has to wonder if generic domain names should be
> controlled exclusively by US companies."
>
> So it would appear that even outsourcing functions give ICE authority to
> shut down the site!
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Cintra
>
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:19 PM, Dev Anand Teelucksingh
> <admin at ttcsweb.org>wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Evan Leibovitch <evan at telly.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> So if online casinos are illegal in the US, it should be no surprise that
>>> its legal system would take steps to shut down -- to whatever extent that
>> it
>>> could -- "onlinecasino.com". They'd have no jurisdiction, however on "
>>> onlinecasino.co.uk" -- unless that registrant was foolish enough to use
>> a
>>> US-based registrar.
>>
>> If a ccTLD has outsourced its technical function (and several ccTLD
>> do) to a US based registry operator,
>> perhaps the US legal system can shut down a domain under a ccTLD by
>> serving the seizure warrant to the US based registry operator of that
>> ccTLD.
>>
>> Dev T
>>
>>
>>> I don't agree that At-Large has much of a political role to play, in that
>> no
>>> country is going to listen to our complaints about content-related domain
>>> seizures. And it's not within our ability -- let alone our expertise --
>> to
>>> monitor and pass judgement on what content is illegal in all sovereign
>>> countries.
>>>
>>> Perhaps, though, we do have a role to play in educating users and
>>> registrants about the choices they make when obtaining a domain,
>> including
>>> issues related to the home location of the registry and registrar. (This
>>> need-to-know also extends to the location of the would-be registrant's
>>> content hosting, but that's way out of ICANN's scope.)
>>>
>>> Anything that helps educate the public that there is not a "default" TLD
>> but
>>> a set of choices -- each choice with certain benefits and risks -- is
>> both
>>> useful and within our ability to provide IMO.
>>>
>>> - Evan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3 February 2011 16:08, Yassin Mshana <ymshana2003 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is Unspeakable!!!
>>>> It is commonly knowledge that No one Nation or State should interfere
>> with
>>>> events beyond its boundaries - unfortunately there are no boundaries
>> when it
>>>> comes to the Internet.
>>>> Internet-based businesses are lucrative yes! It is time a Government to
>>>> change/review its Customs/Revenue Collection systems not to take actions
>>>> that affect the rest of the Internet communities.
>>>> The GAC should see into this to avoid similar attacks to such a neutral
>>>> media.
>>>> Time for a Change is overdue on this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:44:01 +0100
>>>>> From: patrick at vande-walle.eu
>>>>> To: at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [At-Large] U.S. seizure of .ORG domain name
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I support this, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not discussing here if the site infringed
>>>>> on US laws. This is apparently the case. However, the decision to take
>>>>> down the domain has consequences well outside the territorial
>> boundaries
>>>>> where US laws apply. It gets even worse when there is one court
>> decision
>>>>> of a sovereign country which says that the site is legal. AFAIK, Spain
>>>>> is not a banana republic. I am convinced that due diligence and
>> fairness
>>>>> where followed by Spanish courts.
>>>>>
>>>>> I find it grossly impolite, to say
>>>>> the least, to impose one's legal and moral values to the entire world.
>>>>> This is what needs to transpire from our complaint.
>>>>>
>>>>> Over here, when
>>>>> court decisions order to block web sites, local ISPs are told to
>> either
>>>>> block DNS queries for the domain or null route the IP address. I am
>> not
>>>>> saying this is ideal or even effective. But at least, the impact does
>>>>> not spread beyond the territorial limits of the laws.
>>>>>
>>>>> Patrick
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>> would support this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Btw, the USG has used similar tactics to take
>>>>> down domains that are used for
>>>>>>> online gaming centred on Antigua in
>>>>> the Caribbean . Online gaming is legal
>>>>>>> in Antigua but it matters not
>>>>> to US interests.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Antigua has sought relief at the WTO on areas of
>>>>> WTO jurisdiction and she
>>>>>>> has repeatedly prevailed. Still has not
>>>>> mattered to our Uncle Sam.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Carlton
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> ==============================
>>>>>>> Carlton A Samuels
>>>>>>> Mobile:
>>>>> 876-818-1799
>>>>>>> Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment &
>>>>> Turnaround
>>>>>>> =============================
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011
>>>>> at 8:58 AM, Adam Peake wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I propose the At Large/ALAC
>>>>> protest the U.S. government's seizure of
>>>>>>>> domain name
>>>>> Rojadirecta.org.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rojadirecta is a popular sports streaming and
>>>>> P2P download site.
>>>>>>>> Rojadirecta is a legitimate Spanish business. Two
>>>>> Spanish courts have
>>>>>>>> ruled the site operates legally.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It
>>>>> seems the U.S. Government Homeland Security's Immigration and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> Customs Enforcement (ICE) division used the TLD as the means of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> seizure in an attempt to take down the site. If the action was
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> against the registrar then a registrant would at least have a choice
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> of jurisdiction. But this action on ORG, and the actions on .COM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> names last November essentially means the U.S. government considers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> COM, NET and ORG to be nothing more than ccTLDs subject to U.S. whim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> (this isn't a legal action, there has been no court case, no due
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> process.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rojadirecta is now available under other TLDs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> as well its original IP address
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Expect there will be
>>>>> a lot written about this, this article's ok as a
>>>>>>>> starting point:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110201/10252412910/homeland-security-seizes-spanish-domain-name-that-had-already-been-declared-legal.shtml
>>>>> [4]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I hope At Large will issue a statement
>>>>> protesting the use of the TLD
>>>>>>>> registry as a means of takedown. That
>>>>> it recommends when the NET, ORG
>>>>>>>> and COM contracts are renegotiated
>>>>> they should move to a jurisdiction
>>>>>>>> where such unilateral action by a
>>>>> government is not possible. That
>>>>>>>> the new applicant guidebook require
>>>>> applicants to only locate in
>>>>>>>> jurisdictions where such unilateral
>>>>> action by a government is not
>>>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Legitimate
>>>>> businesses should not be subject to the whim of a U.S. agency.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> At-Large
>>>>> mailing list
>>>>>>>> At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org [5]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [6]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org [7]
>>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> At-Large mailing
>>>>> list
>>>>>>> At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org [9]
>>>>>>>
>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [10]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org [11]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> At-Large mailing
>>>>> list
>>>>>> At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org [12]
>>>>>>
>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [13]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org [14]
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Blog:
>>>>> http://patrick.vande-walle.eu
>>>>> Twitter:
>>>>> http://twitter.vande-walle.eu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Links:
>>>>> ------
>>>>> [1]
>>>>> http://www.rojadirecta.me
>>>>> [2] http://www.rojadirecta.es
>>>>> [3]
>>>>> http://www.rojadirecta.in
>>>>> [4]
>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110201/10252412910/homeland-security-seizes-spanish-domain-name-that-had-already-been-declared-legal.shtml
>>>>> [5]
>>>>> mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>>> [6]
>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
>>>>> [7]
>>>>> http://atlarge.icann.org
>>>>> [8] mailto:ajp at glocom.ac.jp
>>>>> [9]
>>>>> mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>>> [10]
>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
>>>>> [11]
>>>>> http://atlarge.icann.org
>>>>> [12]
>>>>> mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>>> [13]
>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
>>>>> [14]
>>>>> http://atlarge.icann.org
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> At-Large mailing list
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada
>>> Em: evan at telly dot org
>>> Sk: evanleibovitch
>>> Tw: el56
>>> _______________________________________________
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--
Patrick Vande Walle
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