[At-Large] RES: Venue Accessibility

Thomas Roessler roessler at does-not-exist.org
Tue Jan 8 05:59:07 EST 2008 

Kieren,

I think we're in violent agreement that online participation
facilities *are* important.  In fact, they are even important for
those who attend a meeting -- how on earth do you prepare when
there's no agenda and no meeting materials available?

That said, I'm not sure I share your optimism about the role that
online comments can play in reducing the horse trading -- I've
probably just seen too much of that during the two days before that
critical Council vote, after all the comments had been dealt with; I
have no reason to assume that that has changed in recent years, nor
do I have any reason to believe things look that much differently on
the Board level (except, maybe, that it's horse trading on a higher
level).

Personal participation *will* remain important, and consideration
for hotel prices, planning horizons, and the like, is an important
part of creating an accessible meeting.

Improvements to online participation, I think, will mostly come from
the procedures, much less from the technology:  Once you have file
sharing, archived discussions and comments, and backchannels, the
critical question is what the organization *does* with them.

For example, how about getting back to commenters and telling them
what you did about the issues they raised, why, and maybe even
asking them whether that addresses their comment?

Just a thought,
-- 
Thomas Roessler   <roessler at does-not-exist.org>







On 2008-01-07 19:18:02 -0800, Kieren McCarthy wrote:
> From: Kieren McCarthy <kieren.mccarthy at icann.org>
> To: alac at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:18:02 -0800
> Subject: Re: [At-Large] RES:  Venue Accessibility
> List-Id: At-Large Worldwide Community
> 	<alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org.atlarge-lists.icann.org>
> X-Spam-Level: 
> X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.1.6
> 
> I never said the online participation site would be a replacement for the
> physical meeting. I think we are still far off from that kind of technology.
> 
> But at the same time, it's not going to just be the high cost of hotel rooms
> that prevent people in future from being able to attend events. And so it
> makes sense to take this opportunity where people are saying they may not go
> to improve the online side of participation.
> 
> Plus of course there are possibilities that an online site provides that a
> physical meeting does not.
> 
> It can act as a store of information for quick review. Decisions may not
> necessarily need to be made just by those that turn up - either physically
> or virtually. 
> 
> The use of new Internet technologies to allow for greatly expanded and
> reflective collaboration is in fact a strength, if done properly. It can
> result in *better* policy since more people can spot more potential
> problems. Since a greater number of people are *able* to have their say they
> are more likely to a) be aware of something and b) feel as if they have
> contributed to it and so be more likely to accept it.
> 
> The other great advantage to an online participation site is precisely the
> opposite of what you are arguing. Even ICANN insiders agree that the degree
> of insidership is sometimes unhealthy. If too few people make decisions, and
> are allowed to make decisions, it is inevitable that the decision-making
> process itself will become political and unduly influenced by deal-making
> and bartering. 
> 
> An outside, reflective, intelligent review makes the very human practice of
> horse-trading less relevant - to everyone's wider advantage.
> 
> But we're not going to get to the point where the valuable outside-the-room
> review is taken seriously unless we work on improving and integrating online
> participation with real-world discussions.
> 
> 
> 
> Apart from all that, the two are not mutually exclusive. You can improve
> online participation and still attend events. And good online participation
> is unlikely to have any impact on the quality of a physical meeting.
> 
> 
> If, on the other hand, reviewing the online participation site and coming up
> with new ideas and approaches is too time-consuming, you need only say so. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kieren
> 
> ----------------------
> 
> Kieren McCarthy
> 
> ----------------------
> 
> General manager of public participation, ICANN
> 
> http://www.icann.org
> 
>  
> 
> Cell: +1 310 806 1451
> 
> Mobile: +44 (0)7932 783686
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alac-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> [mailto:alac-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Roessler
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 3:25 PM
> To: Kieren McCarthy
> Cc: alac at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> Subject: Re: [At-Large] RES: Venue Accessibility
> 
> Not that these efforts aren't laudable and important -- but these
> mechanisms are ultimately no replacement for attending meetings in
> person.  
> 
> The ability to meet people directly and talk over dinners, during
> receptions, or in the hallways, is usually the biggest value of a
> face-to-face, and I haven't seen this emulated online so far.
> Backchannel chats are valuable, but don't have the same effect.
> 
> That means, in particular, that even good online participation
> technology doesn't make holding meetings in expensive and
> inaccessible places acceptable.
> 
> (As long as that happens only occasionally, it's a one-off screw-up.
> Just don't make a habit out of it.)
> 
> Regards,
> -- 
> Thomas Roessler   <roessler at does-not-exist.org>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2008-01-03 10:47:11 -0800, Kieren McCarthy wrote:
> > From: Kieren McCarthy <Kieren.McCarthy at icann.org>
> > To: jsalgueiro at cantv.net, roessler at does-not-exist.org
> > Cc: alac at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:47:11 -0800
> > Subject: Re: [At-Large] RES:  Venue Accessibility
> > X-Spam-Level: 
> > X-Greylist: delayed 1743 seconds by postgrey-1.27 at s15252719; Thu, 03
> Jan 2008 19:16:25 UTC
> > X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.1.6
> > 
> > May I mention again the online meeting participation website for the Delhi
> meeting, found at http://del.icann.org.
> > 
> > If people have suggestions for improvement over previous sites, please
> raise them now as time gets very tight just prior to a meeting.
> > 
> > If you go to the main participation site at http://public.icann.org you
> will see I have set up a discussion forum where you can thrash about ideas.
> > 
> > Kieren
> > 
> >   
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: Thomas Roessler <roessler at does-not-exist.org> 
> > Cc: At-Large Worldwide <alac at atlarge-lists.icann.org> 
> > To:  <jsalgueiro at cantv.net> 
> >  
> > Sent: 1/3/2008 6:22:04 AM 
> > Subject: Re: [At-Large] RES:  Venue Accessibility 
> >  
> > On 2007-12-30 11:01:14 -0400, Josè Ovidio Salgueiro A. wrote: 
> >  
> > > This is true. But when everyone of us was appointed to their 
> > > possitions we already new the time we had to devote to ICANN so I 
> > > don`t see why we should complaint now 
> >  
> > Because this isn't just about your precious time, but about the 
> > possibility to bring a broader public into these meetings. The 
> > Internet at large, you know... 
> >  
> > Sure, ICANN staff will ultimately take care of travel arrangements 
> > for ALAC members and other appointees, modulo the usual little 
> > signals such as not being put into the same hotel as the board 
> > members. 
> >  
> > But what do you do about others who are members of this community, 
> > might have valuable insights to contribute, and for sure won't cough 
> > up $500 per night in terms of hotel expenses -- either out of their 
> > own pocket, or out of an expense account? 
> >  
> > --  
> > Thomas Roessler   <roessler at does-not-exist.org> 
> >  
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> 
> 
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