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Thx. Adam to remember NAIS.
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NAIS was a group of Civil Society groups and NGOs, sponsored inter alia by the Markle Foundation and Common Cause.
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The official ICANN study, discussed in Montevideo, was presented by the Bildt Committee. This proposal included the idea to form an "At Large Supporting Organisation" (ALSO) with the right to send six voting members to the Board.
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Bildt proposed that At Large membership should be open to "individual domain name holders". The idea was to form six regional At Large Councils (with five members) and a global At Large Council (with 12 members/two from each of the six regions). Recognized At Large members would have a right to vote for the five members of their regional council and also vote for the regional Board director. The plan was to have a balance in the ICANN board among "developers" (technical community), providers (business) and users (civil society) of services, with governments in an advisory capacity.
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The Bildt committee adopted more or less ideas which were discussed at this time around a "participatory democracy", "powershift" and a "new trilateralism", inter alia by the OECD. The language "multistakehooder approach" emerged from those discussions. Ideas of the Bildt Committee were used later also in the WSIS process to define Internet Governance (by the UN WGIG) n 2003 - 2005.
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<a href="https://cyber.harvard.edu/icann/montevideo/archive/pres/alsc-pf.html">https://cyber.harvard.edu/icann/montevideo/archive/pres/alsc-pf.html</a>
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As said in my previous mail, there was no decision on Montevideo. The issue was postponed and 9/11 changed the big picture. There was a very controversial debate about the future of At Large in Accra, March 2002 to continue with elections or to ablosh it. Here is a funny excerpt of the transcript of the Public Forum:
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<strong>WOLFGANG KLEIUWACHTE:</strong> MY NAME IS WOLFGANG KLEIUWACHTE FROM DENMARK.
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THE ICANN CONCEPT FOR THE PROJECT WAS LABELED IN THE VERY EARLY DAYS AS GOVERNANCE WITHOUT GOVERNMENT. AND THE CONCEPT OF AT-LARGE MEMBERSHIP WAS PART OF THIS PROJECT.
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AT THIS TIME, IN THE EARLY DAYS, NOBODY HAD AN IDEA WHAT AN AT-LARGE MEMBER IS. THE ARTICLE II OF THE BYLAWS WAS EMPTY WHEN THE FIRST BYLAWS WERE ADOPTED.
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AND WITH ONLY THREE YEARS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE REACHED A TREMENDOUS HIGH LEVEL OF CLARIFICATION AND ORGANIZATION. TODAY, WE KNOW, MORE OR LESS, WHAT AN AT-LARGE MEMBER COULD BE, AND WE KNOW HOW AN AT-LARGE MEMBERSHIP COULD BE ORGANIZED.
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AND WE HAVE REACHED THE POINT WHERE WE CAN MOVE FROM PROCESS TO EFFICIENT ACTION AND CONTRIBUTIONS.
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TO KILL THE CONCEPT NOW WOULD MEAN TO KILL THE BABY IN THE CRADLE AND TO GO BACK TO PROCEDURES OF THE 20TH CENTURY.
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I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE SEEN THE FILM ON CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS. THERE IS A SCENE IN THE FILM WHEN, AFTER THE REBELLION, WHEN HE IS ALONE IN HIS ROOM AND HE IS THINKING WHAT TO DO, TO GO BACK TO SPAIN OR TO MOVE FORWARD. AND HE TOOK THE RISK AND SAID, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD. AND HE DISCOVERED NEW TERRITORY.
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MY RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD WOULD BE, SHOW YOUR COURAGE, TRUST THE PEOPLE, MOVE FORWARD. YOU WILL DISCOVER NEW TERRITORY WHICH WILL OFFER NEW OPPORTUNITIES. DON'T SAIL BACK TO SPAIN. THANK YOU.
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(APPLAUSE.)
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<strong>>>AMADEU ABRIL I ABRIL:</strong> I HAVE A QUESTION FOR WOLFGANG. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.
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<strong>>>UNKNOWN:</strong> IS YOUR QUESTION "WHERE IS SPAIN?"
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<strong>>>AMADEU ABRIL I ABRIL:</strong> YES.
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NO, FIRST OF ALL, ADVISE, THE CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS WAS COMPLETELY CRAZY. HE THOUGHT HE ARRIVED IN INDIA. BY THE WAY, HE DIED DURING THAT.
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BESIDES THAT POINT, WHEN YOU SAID KILLING THE AT LARGE, FOR MY EDUCATION, WHAT'S – I MEAN THAT EVERYTHING IS IMPORTANT, BUT WHAT'S MORE IMPORTANT, ELECTIONS OR THE AT-LARGE ORGANIZATION. AT ONE TIME WE HAD ELECTIONS WITHOUT THE AT-LARGE ORGANIZATION. ANOTHER TIME WE HAVE AT-LARGE WITHOUT THE ELECTIONS. IN YOUR VIEW, NOT HAVING THE ELECTIONS IS KILLING THE AT LARGE AND ICANN. NOT HAVING A SUPPORTING ORGANIZATION WITH A CONTINUING ROLE IS KILLING ICANN AND AT LARGE, OR BOTH THINGS ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT TO YOUR MIND?
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<strong>>>WOLFGANG KLEIUWACHTE:</strong> CERTAINLY YOU HAVE TO HAVE A MECHANISM. AND ELECTION IS A GOOD MECHANISM, YOU KNOW, TO GUARANTEE REPRESENTATION AND PARTICIPATION IN THE BOARD.
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HOW THIS IS ORGANIZED, YOU KNOW, DO WE HAVE SEVERAL OPTIONS ON THE TABLE. AND I THINK THE LAST VERSION OF THE REPORT GIVES A GOOD OPTION, YOU KNOW, WHICH BRINGS THE RISKS RATHER DOWN.
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NOBODY WANTS TO REPEAT THE ELECTION FROM THE YEAR 2000. BUT WE HAVE LEARNED A LOT FROM THESE ELECTIONS. I WAS A MEMBER OF THE MITF. AND, YOU KNOW, WE MADE A LOT OF MISTAKES. BUT PEOPLE LEARN FROM MISTAKES, AND I THINK THIS WAS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE. AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THE NEXT STEP IS AGAIN A VERY SMALL STEP. BUT THE STEPS WOULD BE FORWARD, NOT BACKWARDS.
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<strong>>>VINTON CERF:</strong> I HAVE TO MAKE ONE OBSERVATION. ONE OF THEM IS THAT WHEN COLUMBUS DISCOVERED AMERICA, AND MANY PEOPLE WENT THERE, THEY BROUGHT THINGS LIKE SMALLPOX AND SYPHILIS AND SO ON. I HOPE THAT WE DON'T GO IN THAT DIRECTION.
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SECOND, JUST TO REMIND EVERYONE ONE MORE TIME, IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF OUR DISCUSSIONS ABOUT GOVERNANCE AND EVERYTHING ELSE, DON'T FORGET, OUR JOB IS TO MAKE SURE THE DOMAIN NAME SYSTEM WORKS AND THE INTERNET ADDRESSING ALLOCATIONS WORK. AND THAT IS OUR CORE RESPONSIBILITY.
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see: https://archive.icann.org/en/meetings/accra/captioning-afternoon-13mar02.htm
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Wolfgang
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PS: My "short hisotry" was seen more or less as a brief comment, not as an article or as the full history. The whole history was much more complex. Howeverit makes sense, to document this history in a readable form to enable newbies to understand, where this complex beast, called AL, comes from. Roberto, Izumi, Adam, Raul, Carlos, Hans Klein but also Esther Dyson, Andrew Mc Laughlin and Carl Bildt could give their perspectives.
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<blockquote type="cite">
Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> hat am 18. November 2019 um 17:16 geschrieben:
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif;">Please excuse this note from a member of staff! The document attached might be of interest, a study of the global At-Large elections and a few recommendations. As Wolfgang noted, the elections did not continue after the first year. </span></p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif;">Best, </span></p>
<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif;"><br>Adam </span></p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; color: black;">From: </span></strong><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; color: black;">At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com><br><strong>Date: </strong>Monday, November 18, 2019 17:02<br><strong>To: </strong>Wolfgang Kleinwächter <wolfgang@kleinwaechter.info>, Kaili Kan <kankaili@gmail.com>, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca><br><strong>Cc: </strong>"at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org><br><strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [At-Large] [BMSPC-2020] Board seat 15 selection </span></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">Dear Wolfgang,<br><br>thank you for finally writing this history! I have been waiting for this day for 10 years!<br>Kindest regards,<br><br>Olivier</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">On 17/11/2019 15:44, Wolfgang Kleinwächter wrote:</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">Hi,</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">here is the full background story:</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">1. The original bylaws (1998) did reserve 9 voting seats for an undefined "At Large Membership". 9 other voting seats were reserved for three SOs (DNSO, ASO, PSO). Ine seat for the CEO. There was a "placeholder" in the bylaws because nobody knew, what "At Large" is. An "Membership Advisory Committee" (MAC) was formed in Singapore during the 1st ICANN meeting in February 1999 (with the Berkman Center/Jonathan Zittrain as the academic back up). The MAC had a meeting during the 2nd ICANN in Berlin, July 1999. It concluded to identify the At Large voting directors via elections in the year 2000. The whole project was seen as a pilot project for "cyberdemocracy" and a bigger role of civil society on Internet policy making. The elections were described as an "experiment". They were organized with the help of a "Membership Implementation Task Force" (MITF). As a first step, the plan was to elect five directors from the five ICANN regions. The election was an exciting but also irritating experience. It worked and the community (around 200 000 voters) elected five directors which took their seat at the 2000 Annual Meeting in LA.</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">2. The elections produced a lot of questions. To answer those questions, ICANN etsbalished an "At Large Study Group" (ALG), chaired by the former Swedish prime minister Carl Bildt. The recommendations of the Bildt-Committee were presented at the ICANN meeting in Montevideo, September 2001. The main receommendation was to allow only "domainname holder" to participate in the election to avoid a misuse and to have a higher level of "representation" by stakeholders. Nevertheless, the Bildt-Proposal produced a wave of criticism by civil society. Such an approach would have excluded, inter alia, students, which have an e-Mail address but no domain name. The domain name is owned by the university which woulkd have only one vote in the new proposed system. The comparison was made to the election system in the middle ages where only "landowners" had a right to vote. The decision was postponed to the LA Annual Meeting in November 2001. The day after the At Large discussion on Montevideo two planes crashed into the twin towers in NYC. </p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">3. 9/11 changed the political environment for the development of ICANN. ICANN was not seen anymore as a project for "cyberdemocracy" but as a question for "cybersecurity". US senators came to the ICANN meeting in LA and aksed tough questions how it can be avoided that a "terrorist" get elected into the ICANN Board of Directors. LA 2001 became the starting point of the first ICANN reform process.</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">4. The ICANN reform process was completed within less than two years. It included a restructuring of ICANN. The DNSO was subdivided into the GNSO and the CNSO. The PSO was abolished and transformed into "technical liason group". The elections of Voting At Large directors were abolished. Instaed of election a "selection" process was introduced through a new "Nomimation Committee" (NomCom). The NomCom got the right to "select" 8 voting directors in a process, strechted over three years (3:3:2). At Large was transfered into an "At Large Advisory Committee" (ALAC) with one non-voting liaison in the board. New structures with "recognized ALSs" and "RALOs", which had to sign a MoU with ICANN, were created. To compensate At Large for the loss of the nine voting directors, they got five seats in the NomCom. It was intended, that the NomCom will select directors which represent users/civil society. </p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">5. After the reform was fixed into the new bylaws a lot of big supporters of the At Large, Election and Cyberdemocracy concept distanced themselves more or less from ICANN. Supporters of the new ALAC did not really represent anymore the big civil society NGOs. ALAC became something like a "Champions League without Champions". A nunber of civil society organisation moved within ICANN to the Non-Commercial User Organisation (NCUC), a constituency iwthin the GNSO. However, the RALOs were formed, the number of ALSs were growing and over the years, ALAC returned to became again a more recognized player in the ICANN family. The call for ALAC voting directors came back and culminated into the call for holding an "At Large Summit" (ATLAS). ATLAS 1 took place 2008 in Mexico. One sub-committee produced a resolution which called for two voting seats for ALAC. The Board recognized the legitimacy of such a call, however, the compromise was to change the non-voting ALAC liaison in the Board into a Voting Director, elected by the ALAC itself.</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">6. This is the situation which stands until now. In my eyes, ATLAS III (recently in Montreal) was a missed opportunity to have a more strategic oriented discussion about the role and future of At Large (user, civil society) in ICANN as a whole. This was also a missed opportunity to ask for a second voting seat in the Board. However, it was good to see that NCUC and ALAC entered into a more constructive and forward looking dialogue which ould lead to a stronger voice of the user/civil society stakeholder group within the empowered community.</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">7. With the IANA transition and the emergence of the "empowered community" we have reached a new situation. However, this is not the end of the story. In my eyes there is a need for something like a Work Stream 3 (WS3) which looks deeper into the existing structure of ICANN and how it matches the needs of the 2020s or whether a structural reform is needed to adjust it to the new challenges in a post-IANA transition period. With other words, ATLAS IV (2024?) could re-introduce the call for a 2nd AT Large voting director.</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">Best wishes</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">Wolfgang</p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">Kaili Kan <a href="mailto:kankaili@gmail.com"> <kankaili@gmail.com></a> hat am 17. November 2019 um 06:06 geschrieben:</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">As I understand, it was decided at the beginning that ALAC would have two seats, but then was reduced to one seat for some reason.</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">Kaili</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 4:16 AM Alan Greenberg < <a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca"> alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">Other ACs have a Liaison. But At-Large is thr only part of ICANN that appoints full voting Board Members and has only one. <br><br>Alan <br>-- <br>Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.</p>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">On November 16, 2019 2:57:36 PM EST, Johan Helsingius < <a target="_blank" href="mailto:julf@julf.com" rel="noopener"> julf@julf.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<pre>On 16-11-19 18:22, Kaili Kan wrote:
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">Hopefully, sometime in the future At-Large would get its second seat on <br>the Board.</p>
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<pre>Do other ACs have more than one seat?
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<pre> Julf
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<pre>At-Large mailing list
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<pre><a target="_blank" href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" rel="noopener">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>
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<pre><a target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__atlarge-2Dlists.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_at-2Dlarge&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=bE2HdgWRDycp9rTiVT4rniVxsxwRdmqYbQLSoy_sJEo&m=iEkERrA41ich5siuP_g48ESO-rjr_By6i8INWW2DE14&s=P2jU2d3KszNtdJ8t0vso2bjEVowyloH5gNTSeSSnIuM&e=" rel="noopener">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [atlarge-lists.icann.org]</a>
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<pre>At-Large Official Site: <a target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__atlarge.icann.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=bE2HdgWRDycp9rTiVT4rniVxsxwRdmqYbQLSoy_sJEo&m=iEkERrA41ich5siuP_g48ESO-rjr_By6i8INWW2DE14&s=kKtyGV2HF5PxGOshwi2CgRjjL5UBDY5qqUuED5Nim54&e=" rel="noopener">http://atlarge.icann.org [atlarge.icann.org]</a>
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<p class="ox-4407a56bd7-MsoNormal">_______________________________________________ <br>At-Large mailing list <br><a href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a> <br><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__atlarge-2Dlists.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_at-2Dlarge&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=bE2HdgWRDycp9rTiVT4rniVxsxwRdmqYbQLSoy_sJEo&m=iEkERrA41ich5siuP_g48ESO-rjr_By6i8INWW2DE14&s=P2jU2d3KszNtdJ8t0vso2bjEVowyloH5gNTSeSSnIuM&e=">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [atlarge-lists.icann.org]</a> <br><br>At-Large Official Site: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__atlarge.icann.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=bE2HdgWRDycp9rTiVT4rniVxsxwRdmqYbQLSoy_sJEo&m=iEkERrA41ich5siuP_g48ESO-rjr_By6i8INWW2DE14&s=kKtyGV2HF5PxGOshwi2CgRjjL5UBDY5qqUuED5Nim54&e="> http://atlarge.icann.org [atlarge.icann.org]</a> <br>_______________________________________________ <br>By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_policy&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=bE2HdgWRDycp9rTiVT4rniVxsxwRdmqYbQLSoy_sJEo&m=iEkERrA41ich5siuP_g48ESO-rjr_By6i8INWW2DE14&s=JrHWwArAIxzbwoyu1z5SDXxtKXJIGnkNVRndR3Z9ik4&e=">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy [icann.org]</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_tos&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=bE2HdgWRDycp9rTiVT4rniVxsxwRdmqYbQLSoy_sJEo&m=iEkERrA41ich5siuP_g48ESO-rjr_By6i8INWW2DE14&s=5m4oOYG4uXuFx_fKuCqL5o7m7IMQZCwIrUBHeXI0QXg&e=">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos [icann.org]</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________
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<pre>At-Large mailing list
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<pre><a href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>
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<pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__atlarge-2Dlists.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_at-2Dlarge&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=bE2HdgWRDycp9rTiVT4rniVxsxwRdmqYbQLSoy_sJEo&m=iEkERrA41ich5siuP_g48ESO-rjr_By6i8INWW2DE14&s=P2jU2d3KszNtdJ8t0vso2bjEVowyloH5gNTSeSSnIuM&e=">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [atlarge-lists.icann.org]</a>
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<pre>
</pre>
<pre>At-Large Official Site: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__atlarge.icann.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=bE2HdgWRDycp9rTiVT4rniVxsxwRdmqYbQLSoy_sJEo&m=iEkERrA41ich5siuP_g48ESO-rjr_By6i8INWW2DE14&s=kKtyGV2HF5PxGOshwi2CgRjjL5UBDY5qqUuED5Nim54&e=">http://atlarge.icann.org [atlarge.icann.org]</a>
</pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________
</pre>
<pre>By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_policy&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=bE2HdgWRDycp9rTiVT4rniVxsxwRdmqYbQLSoy_sJEo&m=iEkERrA41ich5siuP_g48ESO-rjr_By6i8INWW2DE14&s=JrHWwArAIxzbwoyu1z5SDXxtKXJIGnkNVRndR3Z9ik4&e=">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy [icann.org]</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_tos&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=bE2HdgWRDycp9rTiVT4rniVxsxwRdmqYbQLSoy_sJEo&m=iEkERrA41ich5siuP_g48ESO-rjr_By6i8INWW2DE14&s=5m4oOYG4uXuFx_fKuCqL5o7m7IMQZCwIrUBHeXI0QXg&e=">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos [icann.org]</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
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<pre>--
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<pre>Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
</pre>
<pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gih.com_ocl.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=bE2HdgWRDycp9rTiVT4rniVxsxwRdmqYbQLSoy_sJEo&m=iEkERrA41ich5siuP_g48ESO-rjr_By6i8INWW2DE14&s=5TsyGycr-tknVx_s1zu0-YFLBepVqzK3yzQdkrs4u7o&e=">http://www.gih.com/ocl.html [gih.com]</a>
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