<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Olivier<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I stand corrected. What I meant is that from my observation in the ALAC space, I am more aware of individuals from the ALSes being active than the ALSes themselves being active, and the whether ALSes are engaged engaged to be considered active is a constant issue.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Good suggestion about the survey.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">John</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 10, 2018, at 7:37 PM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" class="">ocl@gih.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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Dear John,<br class="">
<br class="">
I do not agree with your assessment that the ALS are somewhat of
joke: whilst some might well be a joke, others are quite active on
many points, so please let's not generalise. That said, I am urging
again RALOs to clean up any ineffective, inactive ALSes and this is
happening in several regions, with this potential decrease possibly
replaced by a rise in the number of individual members, which is
already happening.<br class="">
<br class="">
On your point regarding a survey, why don't you all work it out in
the ALAC Sub-Committee on Outreach and Engagement?
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/ALAC+Subcommittee+on+Outreach+and+Engagement">https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/ALAC+Subcommittee+on+Outreach+and+Engagement</a>
<br class="">
That's where the work takes place.<br class="">
<br class="">
Kindest regards,<br class="">
<br class="">
Olivier<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/12/2018 18:42, John More via
At-Large wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:7A880A16-94A1-4FB3-A259-59649FA3BE62@mac.com" class="">
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Evan
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I agree with your direction. The ALS are somewhat of
a joke. Mostly just vehicles for individual involvement (not
itself bad). Part of their being somewhat of a “joke" is that
most of what put forth for comment is of a technical character
that is best worked on by those with the specific background
needed.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">A good measure of the ALS problem is the amount of
energy that is devoted to trying to make certain that ALSs
(=their representatives and “members?”) are minimally engaged.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">There would be a benefit for an internal review of
whether the ALAC can fulfill its bylaw purposes with its current
structure and activities (as opposed to the broader ones you
suggest). </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Could start with a survey, as suggested by
Christian. DO NOT HIRE outside experts and consultants — major
waste of money ALWAYS. More than enough talented and thoughtful
people in the ALAC world.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">John More<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Dec 10, 2018, at 7:28 AM, Evan Leibovitch
<<a href="mailto:evanleibovitch@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">evanleibovitch@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">Hi Christian,
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Given my experiences and
observations... While I have totally stayed away from
the last At-Large review, I did one myself as a
personal mental exercise. </div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">The conclusion I came to is
that the current structure underneath ALAC is overly
politicized, appeals to superficial airs of
importance, and is at its core designed to be utterly
impotent in regard to serving its bylaw mandate.</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Were I to be engaged in a real
exercise to enable ALAC to serve its bylaw mandate, I
would wish to eliminate ALSs and move to fully
individual membership in RALOs. I would reduce travel
and invest more in virtual meeting technologies. I
would also concentrate ALAC activity in ONLY three
areas:</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">- Creation and distribution of
plain language public education on the DNS and how it
affects public use of the internet (written
independently of ICANN itself) </div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">- surveys and R&D into
public needs and opinions about domain names and the
DNS</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">- analysis of the result of
such research, and development of ICANN input based on
that (both in original policy initiatives and response
to existing activity) </div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Any takers? I'm happy to engage
if any interest exists. My rationale behind this is
quite deep and I'm happy to expand if interest
exists. </div>
<div dir="auto" class="">
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto" class="">___________________<br class="">
Evan Leibovitch, Toronto<br class="">
@evanleibovitch/@el56</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="">On Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 11:45 AM
Christian de Larrinaga <<a href="mailto:cdel@firsthand.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">cdel@firsthand.net</a> wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Given
the clarity of these two comments. Maybe it is time to
consider a<br class="">
straw poll over what future role and activity At Large
participants feel<br class="">
is viable? Given the experience of the continuous
perilous undermining<br class="">
of the Internet edge by every digital miner with a
pickaxe, shovel or<br class="">
stick of dynamite?<br class="">
<br class="">
Christian<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Carlton Samuels wrote:<br class="">
> Yessir, I can recall your exact words to me so
long ago; waste of<br class="">
> time, decision already made. The reasoning you
offered was bold, too.<br class="">
><br class="">
> I was interested at one point. Then when it was
too clearly a bridge<br class="">
> too far, I retired to the shadows.<br class="">
><br class="">
> A congressman from Texas once told a writer I
truly loved that in<br class="">
> politics you have no right to call yourself a
politician if you cant<br class="">
> drink their whiskey, take their women and money
and still vote against<br class="">
> them. Theres a lesson there somewhere.<br class="">
><br class="">
> The arguments you hear on this or that are
stimulating for a policy<br class="">
> wonk. But quite frankly at this point much of
what the At-Large does<br class="">
> is margin-gathering. <br class="">
><br class="">
> Someone has to. And we live in hope.<br class="">
><br class="">
> -Carlton<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> On Mon, 10 Dec 2018, 1:07 am Evan Leibovitch <<a href="mailto:evanleibovitch@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">evanleibovitch@gmail.com</a><br class="">
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:evanleibovitch@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">evanleibovitch@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
><br class="">
> So... Do all of you who sank your valuable
time into that<br class="">
> where-do-the-auction-funds-go sham of a
process feel a little<br class="">
> betrayed now? <br class="">
><br class="">
> How many more times will we continue to play
this futile game? <br class="">
><br class="">
> The fix is always in. Let the "community"
thrash about with<br class="">
> well-meaning but big-picture-pointless
debate, then swoop in at<br class="">
> the end to remind where the ultimate decision
lies. It lies with<br class="">
> the money. <br class="">
><br class="">
> "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice,
shame on me."<br class="">
><br class="">
> I got fooled enough with the Applicant
Support process, the CCT<br class="">
> and a few others. Yeah, it's more than one
but at least I can say<br class="">
> I know the experience intimately. But the
aftermath of these<br class="">
> efforts (or lack thereof) is why you don't
see me wasting my time<br class="">
> on subsequent ones. (Cue the theme music from
"CSI:Miami".) <br class="">
><br class="">
> Countless of my colleagues continue the
good-faith attempt to<br class="">
> disprove Einstein's definition of
insanity(*), unsuccessfully. I<br class="">
> love my ALAC friends (I've literally invited
you to my home) and<br class="">
> it pains me to watch the story repeat so
often. <br class="">
><br class="">
> But sooner or later the collective massochism
and denial has to<br class="">
> end. Turnover in ALAC is low enough to have
plenty of veterans<br class="">
> around who should know better. <br class="">
><br class="">
> Stop playing the game. Challenge the rules
instead. Perfect<br class="">
> example: why is ALAC involved in the minutiae
of "subsequent<br class="">
> procedures" for new rounds of gTLDs without
having even challenged<br class="">
> the rationale for new rounds at all? Also,
I've previously spoken<br class="">
> at length about ALAC's sad longtime choice to
respond to the<br class="">
> agendas of others rather than even try to set
its own. <br class="">
><br class="">
> Monied interests overpower us politically by
orders of magnitude,<br class="">
> and without a regulatory role ICANN has no
incentive to push<br class="">
> against the money. This needs to be changed,
or others will change<br class="">
> it from the outside.<br class="">
><br class="">
> I remind that we are now living through a
period of time in which<br class="">
> awful political choices are being made, all
over the world, in<br class="">
> desperate moves to disrupt deaf and corrupt
status quo. ICANN and<br class="">
> ALAC ignore this trend at their danger. <br class="">
><br class="">
> ___________________<br class="">
> Evan Leibovitch, Toronto<br class="">
> @evanleibovitch/@el56<br class="">
><br class="">
> (*) that may not have ever actually been said
by Einstein, but<br class="">
> it's a useful phrase regardless of source. <br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> On Dec 9, 2018 12:34 AM, "Carlton Samuels"<br class="">
> <<a href="mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">carlton.samuels@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">carlton.samuels@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br class="">
><br class="">
> <a href="https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/12/07/dot_web_review/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/12/07/dot_web_review/</a><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> _______________________________________________<br class="">
> At-Large mailing list<br class="">
> <a href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br class="">
> <a href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br class="">
><br class="">
> At-Large Official Site: <a href="http://atlarge.icann.org/" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://atlarge.icann.org</a><br class="">
<br class="">
-- <br class="">
Christian de Larrinaga<br class="">
@ FirstHand<br class="">
-------------------------<br class="">
+44 7989 386778<br class="">
<a href="mailto:cdel@firsthand.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">cdel@firsthand.net</a><br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
At-Large mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br class="">
<br class="">
At-Large Official Site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org/">http://atlarge.icann.org</a></div>
</blockquote>
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<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
At-Large mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a>
At-Large Official Site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org/">http://atlarge.icann.org</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gih.com/ocl.html">http://www.gih.com/ocl.html</a>
</pre>
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