<div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 6:18 AM <<a href="mailto:bzs@theworld.com">bzs@theworld.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
I think I understand what you are saying well enough and appreciate it.<br>
<br>
My concern is: By what mechanism would this current system be reformed?<br>
<br>
If, as not only I have alluded to, it suffers from industry capture<br>
what mechanism would improve that?<br>
<br>
As I said the only mechanism I can think of is altruism which isn't<br>
generally reliable tho possible. Again, there are quite a few very<br>
fair-minded individuals involved.<br>
<br>
One could say I just argued myself into a corner.<br>
<br>
If no mechanism exists or is likely then why discuss it?<br></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">AL HARRISON</div><div dir="auto">Do you know what we’re doing here?</div><div dir="auto">KATHERINE</div><div dir="auto">We’re trying to put a man in space, sir.</div><div dir="auto">AL HARRISON</div><div dir="auto">What I’m asking you..what I’m asking </div><div dir="auto">everyone one in that room, all my geniuses, is to look beyond the numbers. To look around them. Through them. For </div><div dir="auto">answers to questions we don’t even know to ask. Math that doesn’t yet exist.</div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">from Hidden Figures - 5/9/2016 - Shooting Draft:<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Perhaps the only hope is taking to the barricades, or seeking some<br>
other external force majeur. Neither are particularly appealing.<br>
<br>
On July 18, 2018 at 00:05 <a href="mailto:6.internet@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">6.internet@gmail.com</a> (sivasubramanian muthusamy) wrote:<br>
> Dear Barry,<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 4:21 AM <<a href="mailto:bzs@theworld.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bzs@theworld.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> From: Sivasubramanian M <<a href="mailto:6.Internet@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">6.Internet@gmail.com</a>><br>
> >He calls experts and civil society as lobbyists? Civil Society is Civil<br>
> >Society.<br>
> <br>
> I'm not sure it's useful to pick at wording in a quote unless it<br>
> really discredits the point being made but yes civil society employs<br>
> lobbyists, certainly in the US.<br>
> <br>
> Does anyone doubt, for example, that in the US the Roman Catholic<br>
> Church doesn't lobby against abortion, or Planned Parenthood for the<br>
> status quo of the same issue? And many other organization also of<br>
> course.<br>
> <br>
> I'm not sure if you're trying to say such groups shouldn't be<br>
> considered part of "Civil Society", or you're saying they are but they<br>
> don't lobby?<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Yes, they do. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Reading you note perhaps you're just interpreting "lobbyist" as a<br>
> perjorative which it's not, at least not in the US.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I must admit, to some extent, but pejorative is too strong. There are cultural<br>
> differences here. The word 'lobby' gives me a picture of a professional<br>
> (individual or firm) that deploys more than proportionate resources and<br>
> influences in the corridors of the legislative assembly to bring about an undue<br>
> advantage to its principals. In the US, lobbying is probably acknowledged and<br>
> its influences factored in, which is probably why it is an accepted practice.<br>
> (To be fair, in other countries influences are exerted less visibly, that is<br>
> beyond the scope of this thread).<br>
> <br>
> What I said about lobbying in ICANN was a bit too strong. Having admitted that,<br>
> this wasn't to imply that that a certain stakeholder or an entire group<br>
> shouldn't forcefully present its position around the table. Around the table in<br>
> the multi-stakeholder process, one stakeholder group has all the liberties to<br>
> push for a cent per registration as ICANN fees, but the process requires equal<br>
> liberties to another stakeholder group to argue for the fees to be raised from<br>
> 43 cents to four dollars. Then a balance arises. <br>
> <br>
> But if the influence of one stakeholder group is disproportionately increased<br>
> to the extent of occupying the other seats apart from what are already reserved<br>
> for that stakeholder group, in direct and indirect ways, then there is a<br>
> problem. I was alluding to that. <br>
> <br>
> Stakeholders arrive with their own positions, perhaps unfair to other<br>
> stakeholders. The process brings about a fair solution, fair to all concerned.<br>
> With this as the intended magic of the process, it is not necessary to lobby<br>
> across the table or in the sidelines. It is enough to arrive here, state your<br>
> position. <br>
> <br>
> Most of what you say about lobbying happens to be in the legislative /<br>
> inter-governmental context. This is a different model. It is meant to work<br>
> differently. There are distortions at the moment that need to be addressed, not<br>
> by dismissing the entire process summarily. <br>
> <br>
> In making this argument, I am still not articulating parts of the arguments<br>
> well, apologies.<br>
> <br>
> Sivasubramanian M <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> But they are generally highly interested parties and shouldn't in<br>
> general be legislators or similar (judges, etc.)<br>
> <br>
> But they have every right, within certain boundaries, to lobby those<br>
> with legislative and legal power.<br>
> <br>
> Which is why we try to keep the two roles separate and consider role<br>
> confusion and conflicts of interest a problem.<br>
> <br>
> As to experts of course many are paid to be advocates.<br>
> <br>
> I personally worked in research in occupational health and sat at a<br>
> table with a major insurance company's hired expert.<br>
> <br>
> He was absolutely brilliant. As I recall he held a law degree, a<br>
> medical degree, and a PhD in chemistry. The issue was industrial<br>
> exposures to toxic chemicals and the insurance company's liability.<br>
> <br>
> Some of the points he raised were devastating to the current arguments<br>
> though could eventually be answered.<br>
> <br>
> And we (Harvard) also employed a full-time economist (PhD) whose job<br>
> was primarily to model the effects of occupational health legislation<br>
> on the industries involved often reporting before the US congress when<br>
> relevant legislation was pending.<br>
> <br>
> Was he a lobbyist? In a sense, perhaps a lobbyist for facts and<br>
> numbers in opposition to scare tactics such as some safety measure<br>
> would put a large number of people out of work. I think the<br>
> petrochemical, mining, and similar industry would label him a lobbyist<br>
> of sorts.<br>
> <br>
> --<br>
> -Barry Shein<br>
> <br>
> Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://<br>
> <a href="http://www.TheWorld.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">www.TheWorld.com</a><br>
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> <br>
<br>
-- <br>
-Barry Shein<br>
<br>
Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | <a href="http://www.TheWorld.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.TheWorld.com</a><br>
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD<br>
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