<div dir="ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>that is actually not a thought experiment. </div><div><br></div><div>Individual users can't just effect a change they wish on ICANN any more than they can do the same in their countries, states, counties, cities, neighborhoods or apartment buildings, nor in their schools, companies, the networks they build or the trains they run. Scaling requires some aggregation. As you well know, when you want more power for a train you may first gain some by building a bigger locomotive; but at some point you need to stop, and bring in more locomotives. Citizens aggregate in neighborhoos, quarters, boroughs, cities, states, etc., and in firms, parties, clubs, and so on (you know that: you build and test networks and components for scaling, for a living.) The whole basic design of the Internet is an exercise in scaling by aggregation, a very fortunate one. Canetti's book on masses brings out even the most basic forms of aggregation among humans. </div><div><br></div><div>There may be room for changing or improvement in the way stakeholders are aggregated (as well as for many other issues) but not by devolving to individuals. Add to that the needs of transparency and accountability **among stakeholders** and the basic needs of assuming everyone is honest but better to "trust and verify" and you just cannot go to the "atoms" alone. Interestingly, things have worked out for 20 years now; as said previously, that assumption has been tested enough by reality and left much to the side.</div><div><br></div><div>Alejandro Pisanty</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 6:22 PM, Karl Auerbach <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:karl@cavebear.com" target="_blank">karl@cavebear.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 7/17/18 11:08 AM, <a href="mailto:bzs@theworld.com" target="_blank">bzs@theworld.com</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I'll assert this is a problem in ICANN's governance structure.<br>
<br>
Let's not just argue for the sake of arguing. There might be a very<br>
real problem here.<br>
</blockquote>
I think it is a real problem. Let's do a mind experiment. In that experiment let us hypothesize that every single user of the internet wants to make a change to ICANN. Every single user of the internet, that is, except those who sit in one of ICANN's other "stakeholder" categories, such as a registry owner or standards body or government etc.<br>
<br>
Could that vast majority of internet users require that ICANN change?<br>
<br>
No they could not. ICANN has created too much insulation and empowered the very few to block the will of the overwhelming majority.<br>
<br>
ICANN is far too much of a money pump into the pockets of certain "stakeholder" interests - For instance registries get more than a $Billion a year in fiat, never audited, never questioned registry fees out of the pockets of internet users. Those registry "stakeholders" will make sure that ICANN never gives enough power to those who pay into that river of money to raise questions about whether that river is justified.<br>
<br>
--karl--<br>
<br>
<br>
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