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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Thanks Joly for the explanation. That is very useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Edmon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> At-Large [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joly MacFie<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:40 PM<br><b>To:</b> Bill Silverstein <icann-list@sorehands.com><br><b>Cc:</b> At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [At-Large] FCC TO SCRAP NET NEUTRALITY, ICANN NOT AFFECTED.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If an ISP were blocking a public DNS server in order to force people to use its own DNS server, perhaps in order that it could capture data on its customers' lookups, and do redirects - we've seen Verizon redirect on bad queries, for instance - might that a violation of neutrality?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>But, the current US hoohah is not strictly about neutrality, it's about the means of ISP regulation - on neutrality or other behavior - whether it should be via telecom common carriage regulation (FCC) , or via more general fair trade rules on antitrust and consumer protection (FTC). The current regime - the former - apparently very much precludes the latter, at least when it comes to network management.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>joly<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 11:09 PM, Bill Silverstein <<a href="mailto:icann-list@sorehands.com" target="_blank">icann-list@sorehands.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0mm'><p class=MsoNormal>Maybe John is looking at the fact that ICANN refuses to do what they were<br>supposed to do.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>On Mon, December 4, 2017 8:05 pm, Edmon Chung wrote:<br>> Thanks John,<br>> that t is a very technical response, which I can respect and cannot<br>> disagree<br>> with.<br>><br>> But based on your response I am still not clear why ICANN at-large should<br>> not pay attention..., the FCC order does seem like a relevant issue if we<br>> believe that consumer trust of the DNS is relevant... and might be<br>> affected...<br>><br>> I apologize for my lax use of the term "neutrality". My second sentence<br>> is<br>> perhaps more specific... Allow me to rephrase... what I am unable to<br>> ascertain is:<br>><br>> Based on this new order, does it mean that ISPs can give preferential<br>> treatment to DNS traffic to particular TLDs as long as they are<br>> transparent<br>> about it and justifies it with some reason?<br>><br>> Whereas in the previous order ISPs are not.<br>><br>> If the above is correct, then ICANN community has reason to pay<br>> attention...<br>> if the above is not the case thats great, but I am not sure based on the<br>> reading of the document.<br>><br>> Sorry to bother you john, hopefully others can help answer the above<br>> question if they know the answer. :-)<br>><br>> Edmon<br>><br>><br>><br>>> -----Original Message-----<br>>> From: John R. Levine [mailto:<a href="mailto:johnl@iecc.com">johnl@iecc.com</a>]<br>>> Sent: Tuesday, 5 December 2017 11:57 AM<br>>> To: Edmon Chung <<a href="mailto:edmon@registry.asia">edmon@registry.asia</a>><br>>> Cc: 'At-Large Worldwide' <<a href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>><br>>> Subject: RE: [At-Large] FCC TO SCRAP NET NEUTRALITY, ICANN NOT<br>>> AFFECTED.<br>>><br>>> > But, John, if it doesnt bother you too much... Would like to know why<br>>> > you think it is not relevant to ICANN community?...<br>>><br>>> ICANN's job is to manage identifiers in the DNS and (to some extent) IP<br>>> addresses. This order has no effect on that.<br>>><br>>> There are lots of things that might affect some people who are also<br>> involved with<br>>> ICANN. For example, many of us live in the United States and our<br>>> personal<br>> tax<br>>> bills will change due to the bill that Congress recently passed. But I<br>> hope we<br>>> agree that's not relevant here, either.<br>>><br>>> R's,<br>>> John<br>>><br>>> PS:<br>>><br>>> > <a href="https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-347926A1.pdf" target="_blank">https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-347926A1.pdf</a><br>>> > 33. DNS. We find that Domain Name System (DNS) is an indispensable<br>>> > functionality of broadband Internet access service.101<br>>> ><br>>> > Does this mean that the DNS is an exception? and therefore DNS<br>>> > neutrality is preserved?<br>>><br>>> I have no idea what you mean by "DNS neutrality", and I'm pretty sure I<br>> don't want<br>>> to know. If you mean that ISPs rewrite DNS results, e.g., replace<br>> NXDOMAIN with<br>>> an A record of a web server, or they block resolution of names they<br>> believe to be<br>>> malicious, they've been doing that all along. But whatever it might be,<br>> it's not<br>>> ICANN's remit.<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> At-Large mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br>> <a href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large" target="_blank">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br>><br>> At-Large Official Site: <a href="http://atlarge.icann.org" target="_blank">http://atlarge.icann.org</a><br>><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>At-Large mailing list<br><a href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br><a href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large" target="_blank">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br><br>At-Large Official Site: <a href="http://atlarge.icann.org" target="_blank">http://atlarge.icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>---------------------------------------------------------------<br>Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast<br>--------------------------------------------------------------<br>-<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>