<div dir="ltr"><div>My response, also from the thread that Olivier had referred to earlier.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br></div>satish<br><br><div><div><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Satish Babu</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sb@inapp.com">sb@inapp.com</a>></span><br>Date: Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 9:12 AM<br>Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] New version of ICANN At-Large Review - ISOC Chapters role and future<br>To: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com">ocl@gih.com</a>><br>Cc:
Alejandro Pisanty <<a href="mailto:apisanty@gmail.com">apisanty@gmail.com</a>>, Richard Hill
<<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>>, ISOC Chapter Delegates
<<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br><br><br><div>The
concerns expressed here are, in my opinion, quite valid. In addition to
the conceptual issues mentioned in the proposed model, there are also
pragmatic problems (what follows are my personal opinions).<br><br>While
the existing At-Large Structure (ALS) model may not be perfect, it does
strike a reasonable balance between managing end-user interfaces on the
one hand, and evolving and expressing end-user interests in the ICANN
policy development on the other. A hybrid model which admits end-users
as well as organizations into membership, raises several new issues:<br><br>1.
Given the large number of end-users (several billion) and their
geographic spread, who gets to eventually become members is unclear. The
end-result of all individuals being treated as one group may be that
minority communities and smaller countries are drowned out by the more
dominant groups. <br><br>2. Given the multitude of opinions and diverse
interests of individual members, it is unclear how coherence of opinion
will emerge (without drastically reductionist approaches).<br><br>3.
Given the significant linguistic diversity of individuals, coupled with
the differences in Internet access infrastructure, some individuals are
likely to be left out.<br><br>4. Finally, organizations usually have
significantly better capacities than individuals for analysis, response
& information dissemination, given that they are collectives of
individuals. By opening doors for individual members even while there
are local ALSes, the result will be to weaken ALSes and remove
incentives to forming new ALSes.<br><br>The At-Large Community (of which
ISOC Chapters constitute a significant proportion) should examine how
it can use this opportunity to improve themselves. However, imposing the
proposed model without taking into account the concerns expressed so
far is unlikely to serve anything beyond weakening of the existing
At-Large structures.<br><br></div>Best regards,<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>satish<br><br><br>--<br>Satish Babu<br>Chair, APRALO<br>Founding Chair, ISOC-TRV<br><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 3:09 AM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" target="_blank">ocl@gih.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Dear all,<br>
<br>
FYI -- a response from me, to a thread that came up on the ISOC
Chapter leaders mailing list.<br>
The topic is specifically the downgrading of At-Large Structures by
equalling them to individual membership. With many chapters as
At-Large Structures, the Internet Society Chapters would be
affected.<br>
<br>
BTW -- as part of the At-Large Review working group, I submitted
over 100 comments on the original document that was presented by the
consultants to the Review working group. It appears that most of my
comments were ignored. I plan to comment further - when I find the
time to do so - and would be happy to contribute to an ALAC comment.<br>
<div class="m_4345521434505935334moz-forward-container">Kindest regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
ps. I admit that I am one of the "big-mouthed" people. :-)<br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table class="m_4345521434505935334moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">Subject:
</th>
<td>Re: [Chapter-delegates] New version of ICANN At-Large
Review - ISOC Chapters role and future</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">Date: </th>
<td>Sun, 5 Feb 2017 01:37:05 +0100</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">From: </th>
<td>Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <a class="m_4345521434505935334moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" target="_blank"><ocl@gih.com></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">To: </th>
<td>Alejandro Pisanty <a class="m_4345521434505935334moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:apisanty@gmail.com" target="_blank"><apisanty@gmail.com></a>, Richard
Hill <a class="m_4345521434505935334moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank"><rhill@hill-a.ch></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap align="RIGHT">CC: </th>
<td>ISOC Chapter Delegates
<a class="m_4345521434505935334moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank"><chapter-delegates@elists.<wbr>isoc.org></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<br>
<pre>On 04/02/2017 21:01, Alejandro Pisanty wrote:
> Problems like capture by a few individuals will not be solved and in
> fact most likely will be aggravated by the "enhanced membership model."
The Review carries anonymous quotes from people who dislike the fact
that At-Large and the ALAC are standing in their way to turn ICANN into
a domain name business association. Bringing the input of Internet end
users to ICANN's technically and legally super-complex processes is a
very hard task indeed. I know - I chaired that process for 4 years and
to say that it was challenging is an understatement. But the current
structure of At-Large which has several tiers for hierarchy of "control"
but an entirely open bottom-up model where everybody is allowed to
attend any meeting or call and to participate and to voice their
opinion, actually provides for a stable environment with stable
processes which can actually help in reaching consensus and getting the
ALAC to act. That is exactly the thing that bothers other parts of
ICANN: that the ALAC is slowly but surely, over time, surmounting the
largest hurdle to a multi-stakeholder system which is to get the input
of the real end users out there - and that it is doing so with renewed
harmony and proven bottom-up processes.
Instead, as Alejandro mentions, the Review asks for a return to an
unstable, free for all, system based only on individual members speaking
for themselves only, a system that was shown to fail miserably as it
generates conflict with no safeguards whatsoever and favours those with
a bigger mouth than anyone else. The ICANN version 1 experiment failed
noticeably in the early 2000s, with ballot stuffing in wide practice and
mailing lists that were filled with flame wars fuelled by socio-paths. I
remember that so well: having been subscribed to the early DNSO (Domain
Name Support Association) mailing list, I quickly got sick of the daily
dose of venom from psychos that should have been interned, un-subscribed
myself and, after the failed At-Large elections which I predicted were
going to fail, removed myself completely from having anything to do with
ICANN until it had a meeting in Paris in 2008.
The Review is deeply flawed in that it is not an analysis of At-Large
and the ALAC. On the contrary, it is a collection of opinions, many of
them deeply flawed or factually wrong, and recommendations derived from
these flawed opinions. Good opinions of At-Large were ditched and only
criticism was kept, whether warranted or unwarranted. It is a lynching
of reality and I give it as much truth as the flawed populist campaigns
the world has recently seen, thus predicting an equally gruesome future
for At-Large.
By following the mantra "Let's make At-Large great again", the reviewers
are actually proposing to kill it.
Kindest regards,
Olivier
(own opinions)
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