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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor="#CCCCCC" lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> I believe treaties are, by definition and tradition, between sovereign governments. Individuals would not have power to bind governments in a relationship. Individuals could bind one another in an international agreement, but how to get everyone who uses the Internet to agree on an international agreement? Click “I agree” each time you use the Internet </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Thomas Lowenhaupt<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 09, 2016 8:52 AM<br><b>To:</b> Roberto Gaetano; 'parminder'<br><b>Cc:</b> Tom lowenhaupt at google; 'At-Large Worldwide'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [At-Large] R: R: R: Is ICANN's oversight really moving away from the US government?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Roberto,<br><br>I'm a grassroots guy trying to find a way for the Net to address the needs of my neighborhood. And a lot of this global stuff goes over my head. But if the GAC were to move ahead on a treaty, I suspect many of us would say "Hey! This is supposed to be a bottom up process. The governments pushing a treaty, no way, top-down, boo." <br><br>Perhaps I'm missing something, but isn't Parminder's thought bottom-up, and in-line with the multi-stakeholder concept? (And I see some merit in his concerns about gTLD governance.) <br><br>But I'm not in love with the idea of a traditional treaty organization. Perhaps we could address the issues raised in a creative manner, break with tradition and fashion a multi-stakeholder treaty. For a start, perhaps we could present the states with an outline of what the At-Large sees as a suitable outcome, solicit their thoughts, while suggesting that the solution should include a continuing role for the At-Large. And see what they draft.<br><br>Best,<br><br>Tom Lowenhaupt<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 4/9/2016 10:34 AM, Roberto Gaetano wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Parminder:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Unlike what many think, and Roberto Gaetano has argued, a treaty does not necessarily mean inter-gov mechanism for a body's functioning, I am asking for a treaty that simply establishes international law that allows ICANN to stay and function exactly as it does at present....<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It was my intention not to further comment to this thread, that is bringing us nowhere, because we disagree, and are both unable to convince the other party.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So, we are all losing time.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>However, since you call me directly in your message, I will provide a *<b>last</b>* reply.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Treaties are done by governments, not civil society. We are the internet user community, governments are in the GAC.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you believe it is an easy thing to do, please go ahead and do it. As I told you already, go and convince governments, and come back with something we can work on that is not just fluff – or ether.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Since you are insisting in not doing that, I matured the convincement that you are well aware that what you propose will not be supported by governments, and you are just playing politics: words, that go nowhere.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Actually, did you propose this to the GAC, which would be the appropriate forum? If yes, what was the answer? If no, why not?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If I see a meaningful draft, endorsed by a substantial number of governments, I will apologize to you and collaborate. Until I do not see this, I will remain of my opinion, that you are proposing something that is unfeasible.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Roberto</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>At-Large mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>At-Large Official Site: <a href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>