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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Saturday 27 February 2016 08:19 PM,
      Lance Hinds wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CA+gUZcfempBGATUY=9K7Dvft4oSsmbXLMLp3cw_j4ZNyiL84qg@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div style="white-space:pre-wrap">I am just curious as to the 'Non US location' where there is no risk of jurisdictional interference.
</div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Any relativity stable place will do , Geneva, Manila, Sao Paulo....
    And basically, that only serves as a check to possible US abuse, and
    normally with good checks in place abuses get avoided. That is their
    primary purpose, and mostly checks need not actually get
    activated... And of course if indeed we have to move to Geneva, or
    Manila, or Sal Paulo.... there would be corresponding further checks
    similarly... So the whole system is safer and more abuse proof
    without us being dependent on the hoped for benign-ness of one
    jurisdiction, of the US or any else... Does this make it clearer?<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    parminder <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CA+gUZcfempBGATUY=9K7Dvft4oSsmbXLMLp3cw_j4ZNyiL84qg@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div style="white-space:pre-wrap">
Lance</div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr">On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:42 AM parminder &lt;<a
            moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a></a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <font face="Verdana"> I
              mean a check against abuse of power is a check only when
              the potential abuser can feel it breathing down its
              neck.... parminder </font><br>
          </div>
          <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <br>
            <div>On Saturday 27 February 2016 08:07 PM, parminder wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite"> <font face="Verdana">Seun<br>
                <br>
                Firstly, there is huge difference between the one
                authoritative root, and the 13 root zone servers, and
                still more between these and their anycast instances...
                These three kinds can simply not be spoken of in the
                same breath. This is even more so when we are talking
                about creating a fully ready redundant system for
                immediate take over.<br>
                <br>
                Second, when a really effective check is being devised
                against possible abuse of US state's jurisdictional
                power (about which strangely no stress test ever gets
                done - I mean in the oversight transition proposal
                development process - when the real possibilities are
                all around us) it can be effective only when the whole
                parallel setup is fully ready and switch-able rather
                quickly. The current configuration has little or no
                value as the kind of check I am talking about.<br>
                <br>
                Now, whether we are at all interested in devising such a
                check is an entirely different matter.. How meticulous
                have we been in devising various other kinds of checks
                during the transition proposal development process..
                Then why such callousness with regard to this vital
                check, which covers an area that, we all know, has been
                perhaps the single biggest concern regarding the current
                ICANN oversight mechanism, for most people, groups and
                countries.... Frankly, I really do not understand it.<br>
                <br>
                parminder  <br>
              </font><br>
              <div>On Saturday 27 February 2016 07:26 PM, Seun Ojedeji
                wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <p dir="ltr">Sent from my LG G4<br>
                  Kindly excuse brevity and typos<br>
                  On 27 Feb 2016 12:22 p.m., "parminder" &lt;<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
                    target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a></a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; As a stop gap measure, before such incorporation
                  under international law can be worked out, a new ICANN
                  free from formal NTIA oversight should set up a
                  parallel redundant authoritative root in a non US
                  location, which is fully primed to work and take over
                  from the US based one the moment there is any
                  interference by the US state - whether its judicial,
                  legislative or executive branch, either in ICANN's
                  policy process, or actual entries in the authoritative
                  root. Since Internet's root system works by reputation
                  and 'community acceptance' and not by any necessary
                  physical components and linkages, this should be easy
                  to work out.. This IMHO would be the best interim
                  check on the US state's possibilities to interfere
                  with ICANN/ root file business.<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  SO: At the moment there are root server replica across
                  the globe. Technically it implies that each of those
                  root can be potential authoritative root (if
                  absolutely required). So I don't think setting up a
                  redundant authoritative root outside US have any
                  significant advantage in that it's only authoritative
                  if active and not when redundant.</p>
                <p dir="ltr">Regards</p>
                <p dir="ltr">&gt; parminder <br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; On Friday 26 February 2016 09:31 PM, Karl
                  Auerbach wrote:<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; On 2/26/16 12:55 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote:<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;&gt; Karl makes a compelling case why ICANN
                  should not be a California corporation.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; That was not my point at all.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; One can go to pretty much any country, any
                  state, on the Earth and will find similar laws.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; There will, of course, be variations in color
                  and texture among those laws.  But no matter where,
                  when people pool their interests in a common
                  enterprise there will be the same questions of control
                  during times of agreement and times of disagreement. 
                  From the 17th to the 20th century European ideas of
                  organization were spread around the world.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; These laws have been polished through
                  centuries of experience.  Those who think they have a
                  better idea often discover that that idea has occurred
                  before and was found wanting.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; I am old enough to have come of age during
                  the "flower power" era of the 1960's.  I saw (and
                  experienced) a lot of people and groups who rejected
                  "the establishment" and sought to reshape the world
                  along lines that were less confrontational,  more
                  "personally empowered", more "love, peace, and good
                  vibes".   Those attempts, like previous Utopian
                  movements, faded because they were based on
                  aspirations rather than recognition of hard lessons of
                  experience with human nature.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; These proposals to restructure ICANN are
                  similarly aspirational.  And similarly unrealistic.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; Perhaps most unrealistic is the idea that "we
                  can just pick up and move to somewhere else".<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; The grass is not always greener on the other
                  side of the fence.  And if one takes a look around
                  it's going to be hard to find a place that is more
                  amenable than California to innovated organizational
                  structures.  Which is a good reason to look at what
                  the aging Hippies who now run California have put into
                  California's public-benefit/non-profit corporations
                  law with regard to membership and the powers of that
                  membership.<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; Don't fight the system.  Use it. <br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;         --karl--<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;   <br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt;
                  _______________________________________________<br>
                  &gt;&gt; At-Large mailing list<br>
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                    target="_blank">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br>
                  &gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large"
                    target="_blank">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br>
                  &gt;&gt;<br>
                  &gt;&gt; At-Large Official Site: <a
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                    href="http://atlarge.icann.org" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a></a><br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
                  &gt; At-Large mailing list<br>
                  &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
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                    href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large"
                    target="_blank">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br>
                  &gt;<br>
                  &gt; At-Large Official Site: <a
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                    href="http://atlarge.icann.org" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a></a><br>
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