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As the one and only person who has ever really exercised a legal
power to inspect and copy ICANN's books and properties I find this
discussion discomforting.<br>
<br>
There is no doubt that ICANN has lacked both transparency and
accountability in the past.<br>
<br>
ICANN was so obstinate and wrongheaded that I had to go to court to
obtain a writ of mandate in order to exercise a right that is
unambiguously given to sitting board members (such as I was) to
inspect and copy the corporate records and properties. ICANN, of
course, lost that legal action and a writ was issued that ordered
them to open their general ledgers and other materials to me (to
which they promptly complied.)<br>
<br>
And I don't think it is a reach to conclude that that situation has
not changed much, that ICANN currently lacks adequate transparency
and accountability.<br>
<br>
Some are suggesting that some sort of right of access be written
into ICANN's bylaws. I find that to be a very weak, and ultimately
not very useful thing. The reason I say this is that a right of
limited access written into a corporate by-law is far weaker than a
broad right of total access that is written into the laws of
corporations of many (if not all) jurisdictions. And unless one has
the hammer of broad statutory access the corporation can be very
evasive and dilatory.<br>
<br>
Broad access is necessary; one can not have a limited inspection -
For example when I looked at ICANN's general ledgers I found items
that needed to be backed up by supporting documentation. Had I not
had the power to require the production of that material I had no
basis to give credence to the ledger entries or to understand
whether they were being properly made.<br>
<br>
Similarly, when I finally was able to exercise my statutory rights I
discovered that ICANN's relationship with its employees and
contractors was flawed by the absence of materials and procedures
that are routinely practiced elsewhere. It would be very hard to
write that kind of access into a narrowly constricted right of
access by some "member"; that kind of transparency and
accountability requires the kind of broad, unconstrained, access
that is routinely granted to (and oft not well practiced by) members
of boards of directors.<br>
<br>
Any attempt to make ICANN more accountable ought to build on the
hundreds of years of experience in the operation and control of the
kind of organizations we put under the general name of
"corporations".<br>
<br>
That experience tells us that the primary vehicle of accountability
and transparency is a good board of directors who take their
responsibilities seriously and make truly independent and informed -
especially informed - decisions to act or not to act. ICANN does
not have such a board and seems, via its nominative process, to be
expressly and systemically designed to avoid having such a board.<br>
<br>
In addition, experience tells us that such a board must feel the
pressure of those to whom the corporation is intended to benefit.
In commercial corporations that is the stockholders. In public
benefit corporations, such as ICANN, that is the public. "Feeling
the pressure" means much more than that the corporation and board
merely listening to comments. "Feeling the pressure" means
something stronger - such things as are enumerated in the California
laws that describe membership rights, as ICANN conveniently
enumerated back in 1999:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://archive.icann.org/en/meetings/santiago/membership-analysis.htm">https://archive.icann.org/en/meetings/santiago/membership-analysis.htm</a><br>
<br>
Much has been said about membership. Under the laws of California
that govern ICANN a public-benefit non-profit corporation a body of
members is required if there is an election for board of directors.
(And there is no doubt that ICANN had such an election in year 2000
even though they tried to avoid that fact by calling it a
"selection".)<br>
<br>
A non-membership public-benefit corporation is usually used for
things like theatre companies our other endeavors that are largely
the extension of a single, often artistic, mind, such as an artistic
director.<br>
<br>
But when the corporation is really an aggregation of minds,
opinions, and beneficiaries - as ICANN is to a very high degree - a
non-membership structure is simply not appropriate.<br>
<br>
But membership is a word that envisions more than one member. My
own sense is that an attempt to structure an ICANN membership with
exactly one member would fail. Judges are not stupid, they
understand pretense and are both willing to, and empowered to,
perceive actual substance over purported form. Even worse, they
might construe ICANN as a mere alter ego of that "member" and decide
that ICANN's corporate form is not real.<br>
<br>
I wear multiple hats - on one hand I am a techie working with
internet protocols. On the other hand, I am a California lawyer; I
sit on corporate boards; I create, own, and sell corporations. The
rules and structures of corporations, if honored in both form and
spirit, can result in open, transparent, and accountable
public-benefit corporations.<br>
<br>
Corporate forms - the rules and structures that the law dictates -
are not ivory tower fantasies. Rather they are the result of
centuries of practical experience in which people with contesting
and competing interests have come together to try to combine their
efforts towards some goal. The machinery of corporations was not
created in some ivory tower, it was created in the very real world.<br>
<br>
But when those rules and structures are not honored or the
corporation thinks that it can create a system that somehow is
better than what has been honed into the law through centuries of
practical experience, then the result is most likely to be an
amateur construct, flawed, weak, and probably less accountable and
transparent than hoped.<br>
<br>
My point here is that there is a lot of wishful thinking going on
about ICANN and accountability and a lot of hand waiving about what
the law is or is not. And rather than trying to impose real
transparency and accountability upon ICANN by wishful inventions we
ought to use the well tried methods that are available through well
established legal forms of corporate structure and operation.<br>
<br>
And in this case, that method would be a board that is wholly chosen
by and seated by, a membership composed the broad community of
internet users with all of the kinds of powers that are typically
granted to members.<br>
<br>
--karl--<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/30/15 7:48 AM, parminder wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56338331.1050004@itforchange.net" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<br>
<div class="moz-forward-container">After opposing greater
accountability of ICANN through a membership based model, ALAC
leadership seems also eager to *not* support increased
transparency.... (Now, please dont cite technical reasons,
people normally employ 'technical reasons' and 'facts' in
pursuance of what they want accomplished and not against it)<br>
<br>
And ALAC is supposed to be the representative of the
'outsiders'.....A really strange world, i'd say!<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table class="moz-email-headers-table" border="0"
cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Subject:
</th>
<td>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Transparency recap (Was: Contribution
on Transparency Reforms for CCWG)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Date:
</th>
<td>Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:17:44 +0000</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">From:
</th>
<td>Alan Greenberg <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca"><alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
<td>Chris Disspain <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au"><ceo@auda.org.au></a>,
Schaefer, Brett <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Brett.Schaefer@heritage.org"><Brett.Schaefer@heritage.org></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">CC: </th>
<td><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org"><accountability-cross-community@icann.org></a></td>
</tr>
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<br>
<br>
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</style>Transparency is needed, but the CCWG identified this as a WS2
issue. Yes, when we were talking about membership, some of this
automatically would be provided, but it was not de facto a WS1
issue. To add it now is mission creap. <br>
-- <br>
Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On October 30, 2015 11:34:29 AM
GMT+00:00, Chris Disspain <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au"><ceo@auda.org.au></a>
wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;"> <span style="font-family: 'Verdana';
font-size: 13px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">I disagree. I
do not believe there is yet consensus.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I am not in favour of any ârightsâ other
than the enforcement rights already agreed being given
to the designator. I have no issue with the right of
inspection being given to the SOs and ACs pursuant to an
agreed level of consensus.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<p class="p1"><br class="">
</p>
<p class="p2">Cheers,</p>
<p class="p3"><br class="">
</p>
<p class="p2">Chris Disspain<span class="s1"> </span><span
class="s2">|</span><span class="s1"> </span>Chief
Executive Officer</p>
<p class="p2">.au Domain Administration Ltd</p>
<p class="p2">T: <span class="s3">+61 3 8341 4111</span><span
class="s1"> </span><span class="s2">|</span><span
class="s1"> </span>F: <span class="s3">+61 3
8341 4112</span></p>
<p class="p4"><span class="s4">E:</span><span
class="s1"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" class=""><span
class="s5">ceo@auda.org.au</span></a> </span><span
class="s6">|</span><span class="s1"> </span><span
class="s4">W:</span><span class="s7"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.auda.org.au/" class=""><span
class="s8"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.auda.org.au">www.auda.org.au</a></span></a></span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
<p class="p2">auDA â Australiaâs Domain Name
Administrator</p>
<p class="p5"><br class="">
</p>
<p class="p6"><span class="s6"><b class="">Important
Notice</b></span><span class="s1"><b class="">
</b></span><b class="">- </b>This email may
contain information which is confidential and/or
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<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 30 Oct 2015, at 22:25 , Schaefer,
Brett <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Brett.Schaefer@heritage.org"
class="">Brett.Schaefer@heritage.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">Matthieu,<br class="">
<br class="">
I may be wrong, but based on the comments on the
list and in Dublin that there is broad
agreement, I would even say consensus, that the
right to inspect needs to be granted to the
designator.<br class="">
<br class="">
The discussion recently has focused on how much
of the other transparency provisions to bring
forward to WS1. I and others think a substantial
amount, others disagree. If a compromise or
centrist position is being sought, I suggest it
that it focus on these items of dispute.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Thanks,<br class="">
<br class="">
Brett<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
________________________________<br class="">
Brett Schaefer<br class="">
Jay Kingham Senior Research Fellow in
International Regulatory Affairs<br class="">
Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom Davis
Institute for National Security and Foreign
Policy<br class="">
The Heritage Foundation<br class="">
214 Massachusetts Avenue, NE<br class="">
Washington, DC 20002<br class="">
202-608-6097<br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://heritage.org" class="">heritage.org</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://heritage.org/" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://heritage.org/">http://heritage.org/</a></a>><br
class="">
<br class="">
On Oct 30, 2015, at 5:24 AM, Edward Morris <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:egmorris1@toast.net" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:egmorris1@toast.net">egmorris1@toast.net</a></a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:egmorris1@toast.net" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:egmorris1@toast.net">mailto:egmorris1@toast.net</a></a>>>
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
Mathieu,<br class="">
<br class="">
Thank you very much for this post. I want to
succinctly thank the Chairs for their exemplary
leadership on this issue, express my support for
their rational, considered, centered and measur
ed approach to transparency and inspection
issues, and express my full support for the
approach indicated, with work beyond the
transposing of certain provisions from the old
reference model into into the new reference
model to be tackled in work stream 2. It is an
approach between the two extremes recently
debated on list and as a centrist in most things
in life find it a reasonable way forward that
should provide us with the best opportunity to
get this done right. Thanks again.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best,<br class="">
<br class="">
Ed Morris<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Sent from my iPhone<br class="">
<br class="">
On Oct 30, 2015, at 8:15 AM, Mathieu Weill <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr">mathieu.weill@afnic.fr</a></a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr">mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr</a></a>>>
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
Dear Colleagues,<br class="">
<br class="">
First of all many thanks to all of you wh o have
been working hard on this issue. We are well
aware of your efforts to find an approach that
would be acceptable to all on this question.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Regarding transparency discussions, I would like
to remind everyone of the content and
conclusions of our discussions on Transparency
in the Sole Designator model while we were in
Dublin.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
- Our lawyers have confirmed that the
same level of transparency could be achieved in
the Sole Designator model as with the Sole
Member, by adding a specific provision to the
Bylaws enabling the Sole Designator to inspect
Icanâs accounting books and records.<br
class="">
<br class="">
- In response to a concern raised by
Sam Eisner about public disclosure of such
documents, we discussed how we could use the
same type of provision that we had agreed on for
the AoC reviews as a safeguard (see below the
relevant extract from the AoC section, provided
by Steve del Bianco)<br class="">
<br class="">
- There was a debate about whether or
not extra provisions for transparency were
needed in Work stream 1, considering that we
have agreement that the topic is on the WS2
agenda. There was no formal conclusion.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Thomas did conclude by saying âSo thatâs one
action item for our group to set up a subteam to
define the exact language and extent to which a
transparency is required.â<br class="">
<br class="">
In terms of way forward, given the input we have
received, I believe the question is whether
transparency provisions, beyond the records
inspection rights, fit with our agreed
definition of Work stream 1, and whether the
level of consensus on the extra provisions at
this stage is sufficient.<br class="">
<br class="">
I would note that, with the groupâs input, our
WS2 initiative would already be well advanced.
It might be possible to launch it very soon
after we have submitted our WS1 recommendations
if that is the path we take.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best,<br class="">
Mathieu<br class="">
<br class="">
For your reference :<br class="">
Full transcript --> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/56143884/Transcript%20CCWG%20ACCT%20Working%20Session%202_21%20October.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1445525810000&api=v2"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/56143884/Transcript%20CCWG%20ACCT%20Working%20Session%202_21%20October.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1445525810000&api=v2">https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/56143884/Transcript%20CCWG%20ACCT%20Working%20Session%202_21%20October.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1445525810000&api=v2</a></a><br
class="">
Slide-deck --> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/56143884/CCWG-Accountability%20Working%20Session%20II%20%281%29-1.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1445444965000&api=v2"
class="">https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/56143884/CCWG-Accountability%20Working%20Session%20II%20%281%29-1.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1445444965000&api=v2</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
page 75 of AoC reviews as part of WS1.<br
class="">
Confidential Disclosure to Review Teams:<br
class="">
To facilitate transparency and openness
regarding ICANN's deliberations and operations,
the Review Teams, or a subset thereof, shall
have access to ICANN internal information and
documents. If ICANN refuses to reveal documents
or information requested by the Review Team,
ICANN must provide a justification to the Review
Team. If the Review Team is not satisfied with
ICANNâs justification, it can appeal to the
Ombudsman and/or the ICANN Board for a ruling on
the disclosure request.<br class="">
<br class="">
For documents and information that ICANN does
disclose to the Review Team, ICANN may designate
certain documents and information as not for
disclosur e by the Review Team, either in its
report or otherwise. If the Review Team is not
satisfied with ICANNâs designation of
non-disclosable documents or information, it can
appeal to the Ombudsman and/or the ICANN Board
for a ruling on the non-disclosure designation.<br
class="">
<br class="">
A confidential disclosure framework shall be
published by ICANN. The confidential disclosure
framework shall describe the process by which
documents and information are classified,
including a description of the levels of
classification that documents or information may
be subject to, and the classes of persons who
may access such documents and information.<br
class="">
<br class="">
The confidential disclosure framework shall
describe the process by which a Review Team may
request access to documents and information that
are designated as classified or restricted
access.<br class="">
<br class="">
The confidential disclosure framework shall also
describe the provisions of any non-discl osure
agreement that members of a Review Team may be
asked to sign.<br class="">
<br class="">
The confidential disclosure framework must
provide a mechanism to escalate and/or appeal
the refusal to release documents and information
to duly recognized Review Teams.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
De : <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org"
class="">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a></a>>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org"
class="">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
De la part de Kieren McCarthy<br class="">
Envoyé : jeudi 29 octobre 2015 15:58<br
class="">
à : Padmini<br class="">
Cc : <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org"
class="">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a></a>><br
class="">
Objet : Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Contribution on
Transparency Reforms for CCWG<br class="">
<br class="">
I have to agree with Padmini on this one re:
DIDP and being "able to refer the requestor to
documents already publicly available".<br
class="">
<br class="">
The information provided is often tangential to
what has actually been asked for. In quite a few
cases it is so far removed from the query that
it is almost obnoxious.<br class="">
<br class="">
I don't know why Board members have such a blind
spot about how the staff behaves to those
outside the corporation.<br class="">
<br class="">
And I'm still waiting to hear a Board member -
any Board member - announce that they have
decided to look into the staff's bylaw-breaking
behavior in the .africa application.<br class="">
<br class="">
If I was on the Board and I heard that th e
entire process was being jeopardized by staff
wrongly interfering in the process (and then
lying about doing so), I'd make sure the
community knew I was doing my job and insist on
some kind of internal review of what happened
and what could be done to make sure it didn't
happen again.<br class="">
<br class="">
But instead we get silence and fantasy responses
like these ones from Bruce about how the DIDP
works and the effectiveness of ICANN's financial
reporting systems.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Kieren<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 5:41 AM, Padmini <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pdmnbaruah@gmail.com" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pdmnbaruah@gmail.com">pdmnbaruah@gmail.com</a></a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pdmnbaruah@gmail.com" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:pdmnbaruah@gmail.com">mailto:pdmnbaruah@gmail.com</a></a>>>
wrote:<br class="">
Dear Bruce,<br class="">
As someone who has spent some time combing
through the different responses that ICANN files
to the various DIDP requests, my findings are
slightly different, and have been posted
earlier.<br class="">
While ICANN does link one to an innumerable
array of documents that are publicly available,
many times, there is little or no connection
between the information one seeks and the
publicly available documents that are provided.
For instance, I have asked a few questions on
registrar/registry audits, specifically seeking
individual contracted party audit reports in
cases where there have been breaches or
discrepancies. However, the response contains a
large number of links explaining ICANN's
three-year-audit process in great detail, and at
the end has a rejection of my actual request on
the basis of certain of their extremely vast and
broad grounds for non-disclosure. I like to
refer to this as ICANN's tendency towards
documentary obfuscation where they aren't
actually giving you the information that you
need, but are drowning you in documents anyway.<br
class="">
That 66 is a figure that we might need to
scrutinise closer in terms of how effective
those disclosures actually have been.<br
class="">
Warm Regards<br class="">
Padmini<br class="">
Programme Associate, Internet Governance<br
class="">
Centre for Internet and Society, Bangalore,
India<br class="">
<br class="">
Padmini Baruah<br class="">
V Year, B.A.LL.B. (Hons.)<br class="">
NLSIU, Bangalore<br class="">
<br class="">
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 12:16 PM, Bruce Tonkin
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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wrote:<br class="">
Hello Greg,<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""> 6333. The
accounting books and records and minutes of
proceedings<br class="">
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
of the members and the board and committees of
the board shall be<br class="">
open to inspection upon the written dem and on
the corporation of any<br class="">
member at any reasonable time, for a purpose
reasonably related to<br class="">
such person's interests as a member.<br class="">
<br class="">
The minutes are basically published today.
The only minutes apparently that are not
posted are compensation committee minutes â
but even then we could at least note the items
discussed without necessarily disclosing some
personal information.<br class="">
<br class="">
With regard to financialsâ we are already
moving towards the same standards as publicly
listed companies in the USA. We now provide
quarterly financial reporting, and a quarterly
call where the community can question the CEO
and the CFO on the income and expenditure. It
would not be normal to provide people with
access to the raw accounting system (in this
case Great Plains) â which would include
information on payments to all staff etc.<br
class="">
<br class="">
We do use an ex ternal auditor to validate our
financials and processes once per year.<br
class="">
<br class="">
If there is a community concern about a
particular financial matter (e.g concern about
whether procurement policies were being
followed) â then I think it would be more
appropriate if the single legal entity that
represents the community powers has the right to
appoint an external auditor to validate any
particular process or numbers and report back to
the community. Audit firms have the
appropriate skills to analyse financial
accounting records and also have appropriate
procedures in place for confidentiality.<br
class="">
<br class="">
I think we should be focussing on improving the
processes we already have. I advocated moving
to quarterly financial reporting, and I have
certainly been a strong advocate of making
things as public as possible, and welcome
suggestions for improving our processes.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Regards ,<br class="">
Bruce Tonkin<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
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