[At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I

Thu Apr 28 05:31:51 UTC 2022

Well, Holly I don't actually believe there's I'll intentions and ICANN is do8ng EVERYTHING they can think of to keep us safe. This is just a bunch of lawyers trying to protect their client. My guess is that it is almost certain SOMEONE will get sick and it's anyone's guess how they will react.

Jonathan Zuck
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From: At-Large <at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Holly Raiche via At-Large <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2022 10:12:12 PM
To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack at gmail.com>
Cc: At Large <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
Subject: Re: [At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I

Thanks Barak

Unhappily, the waivers must be signed in the next day or so, so probably there is not time for a discussion.  I think we can all agree, however, that there are genuine concerns in this community about the waiver.  My concern is that, far from being an ‘advisory’, it is an attempt (that would most likely be thrown out of court) to escape liability for negligence generally rather than arising from COVID.  The danger for ICANN is the unpleasant taste it leaves in the mouths of the members of its multi stakeholder model that it is so proud of.

Holly

On Apr 28, 2022, at 2:41 PM, Barrack Otieno via At-Large <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote:

Hi everyone,

I suppose a community call with the ICANN General Counsel would allay some of this concerns. There is obviously a reason behind the waiver and the it would be more ideal to get the logic or reasoning behind it so that we can have a basis for reasonable counter arguments otherwise it appears as if ICANN is being cajoled into hosting a physical meeting while it is unprepared. I take this waiver to be like a travel advisory.

Regards

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 5:10 AM Maureen Hilyard via At-Large <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote:
A waiver may be the norm in some jurisdictions and that is fine.  However, this is a global community so that the wording of the waiver document should be a little bit more thoughtful towards the sensibilities of those who believe their rights are being infringed and to cover certain wording that has already been identified as offensive.

The "duty of care" expressed in the document ignores the fact that, even if a person may suffer illness or other harm due to something ICANN has done or imposed, participants will have to take responsibility for themselves. Personal insurance is their own responsibility.

There is no duty of care or consideration that these people are at the meeting to specifically carry on with voluntary work that they normally carry out in their own spare time and homes, and at their own expense, regardless of what inconveniences it may cause them personally (considering time zones of virtual meetings and at the same time many coping with recovery from the pandemic).

The wording of the waiver implies that there is no care, because ultimately they are not ICANN's responsibility, regardless of the work and effort these individuals have contributed to ICANN over many long years for some of them, as part of the bottom up multistakeholder model that ICANN takes credit for.

This is a personal view.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 1:36 PM SCHWEIGHOFER Erich Prof. Dr. Dr.. via At-Large <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote:
May I ask under which legal order ICANNN74 is organised? A waiver makes sense ... nobody knows the risks ... but a duty of care of ICANN is a must.

ERich

SCHWEIGHOFER Erich                       ao. Univ.-Prof. (UniWien, Rechtsinformatik, Europarecht, Internationales Multistakeholderrecht) Mag. rer.soc.oec.  Dr. iur.  Dr. rer.soc.oec. Lg.IntStud
(freigestellt für die Europäische Kommission, Rue de la Loi 130, 1040 Brussel BE, erich.schweighofer at ec.europa.eu<mailto:erich.schweighofer at ec.europa.eu>, Tel.  +32 2 29 52283)
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Von: At-Large [at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>] im Auftrag von Holly Raiche via At-Large [at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. April 2022 02:44
An: Glenn McKnight
Cc: At Large
Betreff: Re: [At-Large] info on waiver to attend ICANN74I

Hi Glan

You and Roberto are quite correct.  No self respecting Court would let ICANN get away with negligence.  It’s getting the matter to a Court that worries me.  If ICANN simply chooses to deny liability, it would be an expensive and time consuming proposition to get them into a court - or even mediation.

Maybe - at the least - express concern to ICANN???

Holly

On Apr 28, 2022, at 6:53 AM, Glenn McKnight via At-Large <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>>> wrote:

Hi
As pointed out  that  ICANN has always been super cautious and legalistic( sometimes to a fault) curious if other events IETF, ARIN etc has adopted such 'protect my ass" approach to an event.  On the other hand, waivers doesn't  protect those that perpetuate negligence,  you can't do blanket waivers as Roberto indicated.

Glenn McKnight, MA
Virtual School of Internet Governance
Chief Information Officer
www.virtualsig.org<http://www.virtualsig.org/><http://www.virtualsig.org/>
YOUR SOURCE FOR INTERNET GOVERNANCE EDUCATION
Mobile  437-237-4655

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 at 16:38, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>>> wrote:
The important thing to note is that the US is a litigious nation and it is within ICANN's purview to create waiver forms for its events otherwise it would not be able to host a physical event. For those who don't like it, they can participate virtually or wear immunity suits.....lol

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:33 PM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>>> wrote:
Thanks Marita.
One sentence - among others - is particularly puzzling to me:

I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN

This means to me that I acknowledge that ICANN has the right to be negligent. I have to confess that sometimes in the past I have thought that this was ICANN’s approach, but it is the first time that I see it in writing.

I wonder whether this is a sort of friendly advice to participate online and avoid showing up in person in the Hague.

Cheers,
Roberto

On 27.04.2022, at 22:09, Marita Moll via At-Large <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>>> wrote:

Dear colleagues. If you are planning to attend ICANN74, please note that you will be required to sign a very broadly worded waiver that goes well beyond any issues related to the pandemic. You can read the waiver here: https://www.internetnews.me/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ICANN-waiver.pdf

Several registrars have asked that this requirement be dropped https://domainincite.com/27793-icanns-covid-19-waiver-formally-appealed.

Michele Neylon, Managing Director of Blacknight Solutions, seeking legal advice on behalf of himself and staff, was advised that neither he nor his staff should sign a waiver granting ICANN blanket exclusion of liability. https://blacknight.blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/blacknight-ICANN-April-2022-Hague-waiver.pdf .

It is an unsettling way to begin what was looking like a new beginning after so many hours at virtual public meetings.  I have attended more public meetings in my life than I could ever count, and have never been asked to sign such an extensive waiver.  I would be interested to know if others have ever encountered this.

Marita Moll, ALAC rep. for NARALO

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