[At-Large] [lac-discuss-en] Vistaprint is abandoning .vista

Tue Jul 17 20:16:07 UTC 2018

Thank you Maureen and Roberto.

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 1:45 AM Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard at gmail.com>
wrote:

> +1 Siva I agree with Roberto
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Roberto Gaetano <
> roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> +1
>> r
>>
>> PS: to me, it is well articulated
>>
>>
>> On 17.07.2018, at 20:35, sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Barry,
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 4:21 AM <bzs at theworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> From: Sivasubramanian M <6.Internet at gmail.com>
>>> >He calls experts and civil society as lobbyists?  Civil Society is
>>> Civil
>>> >Society.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure it's useful to pick at wording in a quote unless it
>>> really discredits the point being made but yes civil society employs
>>> lobbyists, certainly in the US.
>>>
>>> Does anyone doubt, for example, that in the US the Roman Catholic
>>> Church doesn't lobby against abortion, or Planned Parenthood for the
>>> status quo of the same issue? And many other organization also of
>>> course.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if you're trying to say such groups shouldn't be
>>> considered part of "Civil Society", or you're saying they are but they
>>> don't lobby?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, they do.
>>
>>
>>> Reading you note perhaps you're just interpreting "lobbyist" as a
>>> perjorative which it's not, at least not in the US.
>>>
>>
>> I must admit, to some extent, but pejorative is too strong.  There are
>> cultural differences here.  The word 'lobby' gives me a picture of a
>> professional (individual or firm) that deploys more than proportionate
>> resources and influences in the corridors of the legislative assembly to
>> bring about an undue advantage to its principals. In the US, lobbying is
>> probably acknowledged and its influences factored in, which is probably why
>> it is an accepted practice. (To be fair, in other countries influences are
>> exerted less visibly, that is beyond the scope of this thread).
>>
>> What I said about lobbying in ICANN was a bit too strong. Having admitted
>> that, this wasn't to imply that that a certain stakeholder or an entire
>> group shouldn't forcefully present its position around the table. Around
>> the table in the multi-stakeholder process, one stakeholder group has all
>> the liberties to push for a cent per registration as ICANN fees, but the
>> process requires equal liberties to another stakeholder group to argue for
>> the fees to be raised from 43 cents to four dollars. Then a balance arises.
>>
>> But if the influence of one stakeholder group is disproportionately
>> increased to the extent of occupying the other seats apart from what are
>> already reserved for that stakeholder group, in direct and indirect ways,
>> then there is a problem. I was alluding to that.
>>
>> Stakeholders arrive with their own positions, perhaps unfair to other
>> stakeholders. The process brings about a fair solution, fair to all
>> concerned. With this as the intended magic of the process, it is not
>> necessary to lobby across the table or in the sidelines. It is enough to
>> arrive here, state your position.
>>
>> Most of what you say about lobbying happens to be in the legislative /
>> inter-governmental context.  This is a different model. It is meant to work
>> differently. There are distortions at the moment that need to be addressed,
>> not by dismissing the entire process summarily.
>>
>> In making this argument, I am still not articulating parts of the
>> arguments well, apologies.
>>
>> Sivasubramanian M
>>
>>
>>>
>>> But they are generally highly interested parties and shouldn't in
>>> general be legislators or similar (judges, etc.)
>>>
>>> But they have every right, within certain boundaries, to lobby those
>>> with legislative and legal power.
>>>
>>> Which is why we try to keep the two roles separate and consider role
>>> confusion and conflicts of interest a problem.
>>>
>>> As to experts of course many are paid to be advocates.
>>>
>>> I personally worked in research in occupational health and sat at a
>>> table with a major insurance company's hired expert.
>>>
>>> He was absolutely brilliant. As I recall he held a law degree, a
>>> medical degree, and a PhD in chemistry. The issue was industrial
>>> exposures to toxic chemicals and the insurance company's liability.
>>>
>>> Some of the points he raised were devastating to the current arguments
>>> though could eventually be answered.
>>>
>>> And we (Harvard) also employed a full-time economist (PhD) whose job
>>> was primarily to model the effects of occupational health legislation
>>> on the industries involved often reporting before the US congress when
>>> relevant legislation was pending.
>>>
>>> Was he a lobbyist? In a sense, perhaps a lobbyist for facts and
>>> numbers in opposition to scare tactics such as some safety measure
>>> would put a large number of people out of work. I think the
>>> petrochemical, mining, and similar industry would label him a lobbyist
>>> of sorts.
>>>
>>> --
>>>         -Barry Shein
>>>
>>> Software Tool & Die    | bzs at TheWorld.com             |
>>> http://www.TheWorld.com <http://www.theworld.com/>
>>> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD       | 800-THE-WRLD
>>> The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
>>>
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-- 
Sivasubramanian M
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