[At-Large] [lac-discuss-en] Vistaprint is abandoning .vista
Karl Auerbach
karl at cavebear.com
Sat Jul 14 17:24:32 UTC 2018
Thanks for the the compliment.
Here's a pointer to that note:
https://www.cavebear.com/archive/rw/igf-democracy-in-internet-governance.pdf
However, among all of the things that I've written about internet
governance I believe that the following is the most important:
First Law of the Internet
https://www.cavebear.com/old_cbblog/000059.html
+ Every person shall be free to use the Internet in any way that
is privately beneficial without being publicly detrimental.
- The burden of demonstrating public detriment shall be on those
who wish to prevent the private use.
- Such a demonstration shall require clear and convincing
evidence of public detriment.
- The public detriment must be of such degree and extent as
to justify the suppression of the private activity.
--karl--
On 7/14/18 7:50 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
> So happy to see you in this conversation Karl.
>
> For those who don't know Karl Auerbach, my first deep dive into the
> ICANN phenomenon found me reading Karl Auerbach and Michael Froomkin.
> Over the years since 2007, I've had several conversations with Karl on
> numerous topics. Those interactions have always been illuminating and
> thought-provoking.
>
> For those of you who might wish to deepen your understanding of the
> ICANN phenomenon, I would also recommend Auerbach's paper
> "Stakeholderism - The Wrong Road for Internet Governance".
>
> -Carlton
>
> ==============================
> /Carlton A Samuels/
> /Mobile: 876-818-1799
> Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/
> =============================
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 9:51 PM Karl Auerbach <karl at cavebear.com
> <mailto:karl at cavebear.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Carlton, you are as sane and clear eyed as you have always been.
> Yes,
> ICANN quacks like a regulatory body and walks like a regulatory body.
>
> (Which I guess means that ICANN is a duck?)
>
> I agree with you that ICANN regulates - it controls, allocates,
> revokes,
> and levies fees. It also shares some other attributes with
> regulatory
> bodies: It is effectively unavoidable and its decisions have ripples
> that go far beyond those whose actions are directly shaped by the
> body.
>
> As Even L. pointed out ICANN may have legal reasons to try to fend
> away
> the word "regulator". That's not surprising, but that kind of
> wordplay
> is approaching an exercise of Orwellian Newspeak. And it's
> nothing new
> to ICANN: back in year 2000 they tried to label a thing that was
> clearly
> an "election" as something else called a "selection" in an attempt to
> evade California laws regarding the obligations of non-profit/public
> benefit corporations.
>
> One has to wonder why are intelligent people so afraid to use a
> description that so clearly applies?
>
> Well, perhaps it is because there is fear of that word reviving a
> long
> unanswered question.
>
> As you mention, ICANN shapes internet domain name policies and
> economics, and even charges "fees" that everyone would agree would be
> called "taxes" if levied by a governmental body.
>
> A better way to put this is to say that ICANN restrains some trade
> and
> encourages other trade. I used that former phrase because it
> tends to
> raise the question of "what provides ICANN with immunity from
> anti-trust
> laws"?
>
> This paper from year 2003 still remains largely unanswered:
> http://osaka.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/articles/icann-antitrust.pdf
> <http://osaka.law.miami.edu/%7Efroomkin/articles/icann-antitrust.pdf>
>
> By-the-way, with regard to the vistaprint TLD and the discussion of
> ICANN application fees - I went through the round a few years ago and
> did the better part of 100 applications, with each being an almost
> identical application with only a couple of pages of different
> marketing
> info. Yet we got hit with the full $185,000 charge for each one of
> those even though the review for each was essentially identical. It
> made me feel that as between ICANN and a highway robber saying "stand
> and deliver" that the latter was less blameworthy.
>
> --karl--
>
>
>
> On 07/13/2018 05:44 PM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
> > It really isn't a personal opinion; the facts are undeniable by
> virtue
> > of the admitted regulatory signs.
> >
> > It is in ICANN's power to gift a resource, set the requirements
> by which
> > one can be gifted, set the rules for use of resource, charge and
> punish
> > violations of the rules as appropriate and exact a fee for
> gifting that
> > resource. Anywhere else in Christendom and the known sensate
> world,
> > those activities are the very definition of a regulator.
> >
> > ICANN has managed to convince itself and would wish to make
> > accommodating idiots of the rest of us because it is politically
> > difficult to do otherwise. I get the politics of it. But to ask
> me to
> > deny the evidence of my two lying eyes and what is plainly the
> case in
> > reason and judgment is a bridge too far. The Christian bible has
> a line
> > in it "in Christ all things are possible". I would add a caution
> to that
> > declaration: Save and except to take me for an idiot.
> >
> > -Carlton
> >
> > ==============================
> > /Carlton A Samuels/
> > /Mobile: 876-818-1799
> > Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/
> > =============================
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 4:13 PM Kan Kaili <kankaili at gmail.com
> <mailto:kankaili at gmail.com>
> > <mailto:kankaili at gmail.com <mailto:kankaili at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> > Indeed Goran has said "ICANN is not a regulator" many
> times. I have
> > heard him saying that myself. However, this is something I
> disagree
> > with him.
> >
> > Again, in my personal opinion, as long as the positioning of
> ICANN
> > stays blurry as it is now, the confusion will only
> accumulate until
> > it creats a crisis.
> >
> > Kaili
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Johan Helsingius" <julf at julf.com
> <mailto:julf at julf.com> <mailto:julf at julf.com <mailto:julf at julf.com>>>
> > To: <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> <mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
> > <mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> <mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>>>
> > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 8:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: [At-Large] [lac-discuss-en] Vistaprint is
> abandoning .vista
> >
> >
> > > On 12-07-18 19:56, Kan Kaili wrote:
> > >> In my opinion, ICANN should play the role of a regulator.
> > >
> > > Our esteemed CEO, Göran Marby, has a number of phrases he
> repeats
> > > fairly often. "ICANN is not a regulator" is one of them.
> > >
> > > Julf
> > >
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