[At-Large] U.S. seizure of .ORG domain name

Fri Feb 4 02:19:13 UTC 2011

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Evan Leibovitch <evan at telly.org> wrote:
>
> So if online casinos are illegal in the US, it should be no surprise that
> its legal system would take steps to shut down -- to whatever extent that it
> could -- "onlinecasino.com". They'd have no jurisdiction, however on "
> onlinecasino.co.uk" -- unless that registrant was foolish enough to use a
> US-based registrar.

If a ccTLD has outsourced its technical function (and several ccTLD
do) to a US based registry operator,
perhaps the US legal system can shut down a domain under a ccTLD by
serving the seizure warrant to the US based registry operator of that
ccTLD.

Dev T

> I don't agree that At-Large has much of a political role to play, in that no
> country is going to listen to our complaints about content-related domain
> seizures. And it's not within our ability -- let alone our expertise -- to
> monitor and pass judgement on what content is illegal in all sovereign
> countries.
>
> Perhaps, though, we do have a role to play in educating users and
> registrants about the choices they make when obtaining a domain, including
> issues related to the home location of the registry and registrar. (This
> need-to-know also extends to the location of the would-be registrant's
> content hosting, but that's way out of ICANN's scope.)
>
> Anything that helps educate the public that there is not a "default" TLD but
> a set of choices -- each choice with certain benefits and risks -- is both
> useful and within our ability to provide IMO.
>
> - Evan
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3 February 2011 16:08, Yassin Mshana <ymshana2003 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> This is Unspeakable!!!
>> It is commonly knowledge that No one Nation or State should interfere with
>> events beyond its boundaries - unfortunately there are no boundaries when it
>> comes to the Internet.
>> Internet-based businesses are lucrative yes! It is time a Government to
>> change/review its Customs/Revenue Collection systems not to take actions
>> that affect the rest of the Internet communities.
>> The GAC should see into this to avoid similar attacks to such a neutral
>> media.
>> Time for a Change is overdue on this.
>>
>>
>> > Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:44:01 +0100
>> > From: patrick at vande-walle.eu
>> > To: at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> > Subject: Re: [At-Large] U.S. seizure of .ORG domain name
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I support this, too.
>> >
>> > I am not discussing here if the site infringed
>> > on US laws. This is apparently the case. However, the decision to take
>> > down the domain has consequences well outside the territorial boundaries
>> > where US laws apply. It gets even worse when there is one court decision
>> > of a sovereign country which says that the site is legal. AFAIK, Spain
>> > is not a banana republic. I am convinced that due diligence and fairness
>> > where followed by Spanish courts.
>> >
>> > I find it grossly impolite, to say
>> > the least, to impose one's legal and moral values to the entire world.
>> > This is what needs to transpire from our complaint.
>> >
>> > Over here, when
>> > court decisions order to block web sites, local ISPs are told to either
>> > block DNS queries for the domain or null route the IP address. I am not
>> > saying this is ideal or even effective. But at least, the impact does
>> > not spread beyond the territorial limits of the laws.
>> >
>> > Patrick
>> >
>> > >> I
>> > would support this.
>> > >>
>> > >> Btw, the USG has used similar tactics to take
>> > down domains that are used for
>> > >> online gaming centred on Antigua in
>> > the Caribbean . Online gaming is legal
>> > >> in Antigua but it matters not
>> > to US interests.
>> > >>
>> > >> Antigua has sought relief at the WTO on areas of
>> > WTO jurisdiction and she
>> > >> has repeatedly prevailed. Still has not
>> > mattered to our Uncle Sam.
>> > >>
>> > >> Carlton
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > ==============================
>> > >> Carlton A Samuels
>> > >> Mobile:
>> > 876-818-1799
>> > >> Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment &
>> > Turnaround
>> > >> =============================
>> > >>
>> > >> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011
>> > at 8:58 AM, Adam Peake wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> I propose the At Large/ALAC
>> > protest the U.S. government's seizure of
>> > >>> domain name
>> > Rojadirecta.org.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Rojadirecta is a popular sports streaming and
>> > P2P download site.
>> > >>> Rojadirecta is a legitimate Spanish business. Two
>> > Spanish courts have
>> > >>> ruled the site operates legally.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> It
>> > seems the U.S. Government Homeland Security's Immigration and
>> > >>>
>> > Customs Enforcement (ICE) division used the TLD as the means of
>> > >>>
>> > seizure in an attempt to take down the site. If the action was
>> > >>>
>> > against the registrar then a registrant would at least have a choice
>> > >>>
>> > of jurisdiction. But this action on ORG, and the actions on .COM
>> > >>>
>> > names last November essentially means the U.S. government considers
>> > >>>
>> > COM, NET and ORG to be nothing more than ccTLDs subject to U.S. whim
>> > >>>
>> > (this isn't a legal action, there has been no court case, no due
>> > >>>
>> > process.)
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Rojadirecta is now available under other TLDs
>> > >>>
>> >
>> > >>> as well its original IP address
>> > >>> .
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Expect there will be
>> > a lot written about this, this article's ok as a
>> > >>> starting point:
>> > >>>
>> > <
>> > >>>
>> >
>> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110201/10252412910/homeland-security-seizes-spanish-domain-name-that-had-already-been-declared-legal.shtml
>> > [4]
>> > >>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I hope At Large will issue a statement
>> > protesting the use of the TLD
>> > >>> registry as a means of takedown. That
>> > it recommends when the NET, ORG
>> > >>> and COM contracts are renegotiated
>> > they should move to a jurisdiction
>> > >>> where such unilateral action by a
>> > government is not possible. That
>> > >>> the new applicant guidebook require
>> > applicants to only locate in
>> > >>> jurisdictions where such unilateral
>> > action by a government is not
>> > >>> possible.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Legitimate
>> > businesses should not be subject to the whim of a U.S. agency.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > Adam
>> > >>> _______________________________________________
>> > >>> At-Large
>> > mailing list
>> > >>> At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org [5]
>> > >>>
>> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [6]
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org [7]
>> > >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> At-Large mailing
>> > list
>> > >> At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org [9]
>> > >>
>> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [10]
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org [11]
>> > >
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > > At-Large mailing
>> > list
>> > > At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org [12]
>> > >
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>> > >
>> > >
>> > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org [14]
>> >
>> > --
>> > Blog:
>> > http://patrick.vande-walle.eu
>> > Twitter:
>> > http://twitter.vande-walle.eu
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Links:
>> > ------
>> > [1]
>> > http://www.rojadirecta.me
>> > [2] http://www.rojadirecta.es
>> > [3]
>> > http://www.rojadirecta.in
>> > [4]
>> >
>> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110201/10252412910/homeland-security-seizes-spanish-domain-name-that-had-already-been-declared-legal.shtml
>> > [5]
>> > mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> > [6]
>> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
>> > [7]
>> > http://atlarge.icann.org
>> > [8] mailto:ajp at glocom.ac.jp
>> > [9]
>> > mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> > [10]
>> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
>> > [11]
>> > http://atlarge.icann.org
>> > [12]
>> > mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> > [13]
>> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
>> > [14]
>> > http://atlarge.icann.org
>> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada
> Em: evan at telly dot org
> Sk: evanleibovitch
> Tw: el56
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