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<p>Dear all, for the 2 questions, they have replied. <br>
</p>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:9.856px">YODET indeed
allows institutional membership; some of the initiatives have
already become members.</span><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">As for individual members, leadership positions are
accessible based on merit.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
Please let me know your decision and we can go ahead to the ALAC
vote. <br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
Pavan Budhrani <br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/4/17 10:55 AM, Maureen Hilyard
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGj=WWQABrM3okVi8d0j+ZUFaNG4_hNT4o7TbmBaZreG77GhkQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>At the moment, the status quo exists.. We certainly aren't
asking staff to make any changes to what they are currently
doing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The discussions we are having among the RALO at the moment
relates to how we might do things differently if we had the
chance to change things for the better in the future. There
are lots of things that have to be sorted through. </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 4:15 PM, Alan
Greenberg <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><span class="">
"But how do we recognise the ones who do the work?"<br>
<br>
</span>
At the moment, and for the reasonable future, all we need
to do is ask
those who claim to be part of At-Large what their
affiliation is. I think
this is a reason able thing to task At-Large Staff with.<br>
<br>
Alan
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
At 03/12/2017 08:08 PM, Maureen Hilyard wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="m_-6803256653384621282cite">
<div>
<div class="h5">Hi Alan<br>
<br>
Exactly.. You are correct that we don't currently
have these rules
in APRALO at the moment.. However, APRALO is
continuing a conversation we
started in Abu Dhabi about how to engage our ALSes
and individual members
better, but also acknowledging those who are doing
the work, rather than
those who have official titles and don't do
anything. <br>
<br>
But how do we recognise the ones who do the work?<br>
<br>
I plan to call a formal meeting of an APRALO working
group, to formalise
some of the ideas we are proposing in this
conversation, which we will
propose to the wider At-Large working group later
on.<br>
<br>
M. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Alan Greenberg
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca"
target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>
> wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>"But if these designated personnel do not
actively participate
then the ALS can be deregistered. But what if
there are other individual
members of the ALS who do participate - but they
are NOT the contacts.
Our registration procedures do not actually
stipulate what should
happen."<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Maureen, unless you have such a rule in APRALO
(and I could not find
one on a quick review), that is not necessarily
true. The representatives
are just that, representatives. They are the
ones to take formal action
on behalf of the ALS (such as vote if and when
there are votes). An ALS
judged to be active can be because other members
of the ALS are active in
At-Large and ICANN processes. <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Of course the problem is that right now is
that we have no practical
way of automatically recognizing this - it
relies on
self-declaration or one of us "knowing" which
ALS a
person is associated with.<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>A;an<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>At 03/12/2017 08:40 AM, Maureen Hilyard wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
class="m_-6803256653384621282cite">
<dd>I understand what you are saying,
Jahangir. An ALS's bylaws
about their leadership structure is a valid
point but it is separate from
the At-Large participation issue..<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>ICANN is obliged to accept the names of
the first and second contact
of the ALS as they are given to us when an
ALS is registered because that
is our (ALAC's) current policy. But if these
designated personnel do not
actively participate then the ALS can be
deregistered. But what if
there are other individual members of the
ALS who do participate - but
they are NOT the contacts. Our registration
procedures do not actually
stipulate what should happen.<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>However, what the ALAC has been talking
about is that when it comes
to inviting people to events, like the
ATLASIII in 2019 (or whenever), we
are considering the use of metrics, so that
only those individuals who
are already actively engaged, will be
invited even if they are not the
designated first and second contacts that
were assigned by the ALS
management, and who, in some ALS cases,
never turned up to any meetings.
<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>The ATLAS will discuss policy, so we would
like to have people
participating in the discussions who
actually know about the important
ICANN issues and can contribute.<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 2:12 AM, Jahangir
Hossain
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jrjahangir@gmail.com"
target="_blank">jrjahangir@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:
<dl>
<dd>Hi Maureen ,<br>
</dd>
<dd>I have bellow comment about the below
point ;<br>
</dd>
<dd>So maybe, once an ALS is registered,
then we simply deal with those
members who are interested and active
whom we will be able to identify
via our metrics and establish as the
first and second contacts for any
communications. . <br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Comments : Every ALS have own bylaw to
run the organization . Members
of ALS select their EC/ Board members by
following their bylaw who are
the valid key contact person for any
communication . So if you proposed
to select first and second contacts from
interested person via metrics
for any communications, this should not
be represented the organization
ALS . This is because this selected
person might not be elected from the
ALS by following their bylaw. So if we
consider to represent the
organization ALS then we should respect
the ALS's bylaw for this
issue . <br>
<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Regards / Jahangir<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 2:43 PM, Nadira
Alaraj
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nadira.araj@gmail.com"
target="_blank">nadira.araj@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:
<dl>
<dd>Hi Satish,
</dd>
<dd>Regarding to point 4.
</dd>
<dd>"4. The current rules on not
admitting existing ALS members as
individual members to APRALO is
based on the potential to weaken
ALSes.
It's perhaps time that these rules
are reviewed at both ALAC and RALO
levels...however, this is not a
decision to be taken lightly."<br>
</dd>
<dd>Many of the ALSes are run by a
leadership team who may have no
activities to engage their ordinary
members. </dd>
<dd>Here I come back to the discussion
point on what is the criteria of
making sure that a certified ALS is
an active ALS as they are expected
to
perform certain activities related
to ICANN that comply to RALO
requirements in engaging both their
own community and their wider
community? If the said ALS don't do
that then a potential good members
of
such ALS will be of disadvantage.
Then if this potential member
applied to be as individual member
in APRALO if they already active in
ICANN WGs, are RALOs ready to
accept their application? </dd>
<dd>This leads to the importance of
documentation by ALS activities on
regular or even annual basis on
their wiki space as part of basic
requirements to ALS. Not satisfying
this basic requirement hints to
their
lack of seriousness.<br>
</dd>
<dd>Best,
</dd>
<dd>Nadira <br>
<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>On Dec 3, 2017 08:56, "Satish
Babu"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sb@inapp.com"
target="_blank">sb@inapp.com</a>>
wrote:
<dl>
<dd>There are several
considerations that we have to
be mindful of,
vis-a-vis individual members,
particularly after the recent
At-Large
Review:<br>
</dd>
<dd>1. RALOs should encourage
individual members to
participate in policy
processes in RALOs and At-Large.
<br>
</dd>
<dd>2. For this, we need to ensure
that individuals have low entry
barriers (ie., a light-weight
admission process) compared to
ALSes<br>
</dd>
<dd>3. The current admission
process for individual members
("Trust" and not
"Trust-but-verify") is based on
keeping entry barriers low, but
also because we often have no
other means
of verification<br>
</dd>
<dd>4. The current rules on not
admitting existing ALS members
as
individual members to APRALO is
based on the potential to weaken
ALSes.
It's perhaps time that these
rules are reviewed at both ALAC
and RALO
levels...however, this is not a
decision to be taken lightly.<br>
</dd>
<dd>We are in the early phase of
inducting individual members. We
have to
learn as we go and fine-tune our
rules.<font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></dd>
<dd><font color="#888888">satish<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</blockquote>
</dd>
</dl>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Alan
Greenberg
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca"
target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a> >
wrote:
</div>
</div>
<dl>
<dd>All good questions. <br>
</dd>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">I can even add another. Is there any
harm in a person becoming an
individual member who is a member of an ALS, but
is not active in that
ALS's activities with respect to being an ALS.
That situation could have
applied to me - I was an individual member, but
was also historically a
member of an ISOC Chapter, but only because I had
ticked off a box on a
web form, not because I was active in it in any
way. Would there have
been any harm in my continuing to be a "member" of
that
ALS?<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</dd>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">Ultimately, these are issues that
either all RALOs must address, or
perhaps we will come up with a uniform cross-RALO
criteria. An important
thing to keep in mind is that the overall target
is to get people active
in ICANN processes.<br>
</div>
</div>
</dd>
<dd>Alan<br>
</dd>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">At 03/12/2017 01:30 AM, Maureen
Hilyard
wrote:</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
class="m_-6803256653384621282cite">
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">But should we get individual
members to sign a piece of paper that
says that they officially do not belong to an
ALS? <br>
</div>
</div>
</dd>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">This discussion is important as
APRALO seeks to confirm acceptable
criteria for registration of our ALSes (and
any individual members who
belong to it and want to join in our
discussions), as well as those who
are individual members not affiliated to any
organisation. <br>
</div>
</div>
</dd>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">I like the example of our the
Abu Dhabi representative of our
individual members - due to her own personal
interest in the work of
ICANN, Justine was already an active member of
a couple of working groups
before she became a formal individual member
of APRALO. She was a known
entity and we have welcomed her participation
in our discussions as a
regional participant in the same way as we
accept the inputs of the
individual members who represent the
interests of their ALSes. In
past discussions, APRALO raised the point that
individual members should
already be actively engaged before we register
them. There has been poor
commitment by some of the individual members
we currently have on our
list How do we deregister them?<br>
</div>
</div>
</dd>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">I can appreciate that sometimes
people may not be able to participate
in an organisation that meets face to face
normally at a time and place
that is not convenient for everyone... and
this was the reason we
encouraged individual members. But leaving an
ALS to become an individual
member does not make sense to me. </div>
</div>
</dd>
<dd>M </dd>
<dd>. <br>
</dd>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 7:38 PM,
Alan Greenberg
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca"
target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>
> wrote: </div>
</div>
<dl>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">One has to put these things
in perspective and to examine the effort
involved vs the benefits and risks.
</div>
</div>
</dd>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">Looking at an unrelated
issue, ICANN directors are subject to
strict
conflict of interest rules because it is
important that they not have a
personal interest when making decisions on
behalf of ICANN. But all we
ask is that they sign a piece of paper
affirming what their conflicts are
(if any) and assuring that should one
arise, they will act properly. </div>
</div>
</dd>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">In the case of individual
members, one has to look at the risks of
accepting people's word, the harm it would
cause, and now much it would
cost/difficulty to investigate further vs
the benefits.
</div>
</div>
</dd>
<dd>Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">At 02/12/2017 07:10 PM,
Maureen Hilyard wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
class="m_-6803256653384621282cite">
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">Sorry that was sent too
early, accidentally This is really
opening up
a can of worms. have to take
people's word on TRUST.
</div>
</div>
</dd>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">It has already been
intimated that we might need to get
the
membership lists of all our ALSes to
check on whether people are
legitimately NOT members - I can just
imagine trying to keep track of the
members of PICISOC or any ISOC In
India.
</div>
</div>
</dd>
<dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">Becoming an individual
member to be able to contribute on
your own
behalf rather than a group's view is
legitimate, but how does a single
person compete against a chartered
organisation for regional funds to do
outreach so that they can fulfil the
other ICANN expectations of ALses? </div>
</div>
</dd>
<dd>ØKeeping the community of
individual Internet users informed
about the significant news from ICANN </dd>
<dd>ØPromoting outreach activities
in the community of
individual Internet users </dd>
<dd>ØDistributing (through posting
or otherwise) an updated
agenda, news about ICANN, and information
about items in the ICANN
policy-development process </dd>
<dd>ØDeveloping and maintaining
on-going information and
education programs, regarding ICANN and
its work </dd>
<dd>ØMaking public, and analyzing,
ICANN's proposed policies and
its decisions and their
(potential)regional impact and (potential)
effect
on individuals in the region; </dd>
<dd><span class="">I started to make mention
of the fact that we could have to ask
people who have disagreements with their
ALS managements and leave, that
they may have to bring along a letter
saying that they are no longer
members. But what a hassle. </span></dd>
<dd><span class="">But it is one of the
thngs that I would like to discuss with
an
volunteers of a group of APRALO members
to discuss ALS criteria,
expectations and metrics. </span></dd>
<dd><span class="">Anyone want to join, drop
me a line, and I will get staff to
create a
wiki space for us. </span></dd>
<dd>Maureen
</dd>
<dd><span class="">On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at
2:03 PM, Maureen Hilyard
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com"
target="_blank">
maureen.hilyard@gmail.com</a>>
wrote: </span>
<dl>
<dd><span class="">This is really
opening up a can of worms. have to
take
people's word on TRUST. </span></dd>
<dd><span class="">It has already been
intimated that we might need to get
the
membership lists of all our ALSes to
check on whether people are
legitimately NOT members - I can
just imagine trying to keep track of
the
members of PICISOC or any ISOC In
India. </span></dd>
<dd><span class="">Becoming an
individual member to be able to
contribute on your own
behalf rather than a group's view is
legitimate, but how does a single
person compete against a chartered
organisation for regional funds to
do
outreach so that thy can fulfil the
other ICANN expectations in their
bylaws of ALses?</span><font
size="4"> </font></dd>
<dd><font size="4">ØKeeping the
community of individual Internet
users informed
about the significant news from
ICANN </font></dd>
<dd><font size="4">ØPromoting
outreach activities in the community
of
individual Internet users </font></dd>
<dd><font size="4">ØDistributing
(through posting or otherwise) an
updated
agenda, news about ICANN, and
information about items in the ICANN
policy-development process </font></dd>
<dd><font size="4">ØDeveloping
and maintaining on-going information
and
education programs, regarding ICANN
and its work </font></dd>
<dd><font size="4"> </font></dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</blockquote>
</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</blockquote>
</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
<dd><span class=""> but we also have to be mindful, that if
former ALS members
leave an organisation, they may require a formal letter
indicating that
they are not longer a member as part of the RALO
application process.
This will <br>
</span></dd>
<dd><span class="">On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 3:26 AM, Satish
Babu
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sb@inapp.com"
target="_blank">sb@inapp.com</a>> wrote:
<dl>
<dd>Thanks Rajnesh. </dd>
<dd>The current mechanism is a self-declaration by the
applicant. We have
been finding that this doesn't always work. As you
have pointed out, it
is not always easy to keep track of the affiliations
of organizations
that a person is a member of. We will consider
revising the wording or
providing an example.<font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></dd>
<dd><font color="#888888">satish </font></dd>
<dd><font color="#888888"> </font></dd>
</dl>
</span></dd>
<dd><span class="">On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Rajnesh
Singh
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rajnesh.singh@gmail.com" target="_blank">rajnesh.singh@gmail.com</a>
> wrote: </span>
<dl>
<dd><span class="">So I wonder out loud what is the
process to ensure that an individual
applicant is not already a member via an ALS? </span></dd>
<dd>This could get messy as one could belong to one of
many ALS’
- - - like e I do for example. Sometimes hard to
track, be aware
of.<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Raj
</dd>
<dd><span class="">On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 at 1:38 pm,
Maureen Hilyard
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com"
target="_blank">
maureen.hilyard@gmail.com</a>> wrote: </span>
<dl>
<dd>Hi Afifa </dd>
<dd><span class="">If Buddha is already a member of
ISOC Kolkata then he cannot be an
individual member? He should already be
involved.<br>
<br>
</span></dd>
<dd>M :)
</dd>
<dd><span class="">On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 6:58 AM,
Afifa Abbas
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:afifa.abbas118@gmail.com"
target="_blank">afifa.abbas118@gmail.com</a>
> wrote: </span>
<dl>
<dd>Hi All, </dd>
<dd><span class="">I met Buddha in Abu Dhabi and
he seems very passionate. He reached
out to me for an outreach. </span></dd>
<dd><span class="">I totally support their
application. </span></dd>
<dd>Regards, </dd>
<dd>Afifa </dd>
<dd><span class="">On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 7:43
AM, Pavan Budhrani *
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pavan@namesphere.asia"
target="_blank">pavan@namesphere.asia</a>>
wrote: </span>
<dl>
<dd><span class="">Please check the answers
below, Staff there are some with a N/A,
please help get that information </span></dd>
<dd><span class="">* Do they allow
individual members?Yes </span></dd>
<dd> Institutional members? N/A </dd>
<dd><span class="">* What is size of their
membership at this time? What proportion
of
their membership are individuals? </span></dd>
<dd><span class="">(10) in Board of Trustees
</span></dd>
<dd>(3) Audit Committee </dd>
<dd><span class="">(5) in Board of Directors
</span></dd>
<dd>(35) other members†</dd>
<dd>* Can individual members assume
leadership positions?<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>N/A </dd>
<dd>Also please help follow up with Buddha
Haldar, Staff :) </dd>
<dd>Thanks so much!<font color="#888888"> </font></dd>
<dd><font color="#888888">Pavan</font></dd>
<br>
<dd>On 11/21/17 9:01 PM, Satish Babu wrote:<br>
<br>
<dl>
<dd>* Do they allow individual members?
Institutional members? </dd>
<dd>* What is size of their membership
at this time? What proportion of
their membership are individuals? </dd>
<dd>* Can individual members assume
leadership positions?<br>
<br>
</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
</dl>
</dd>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<dd>______________________________<wbr>_________________
<br>
</dd>
<dd>APAC-Discuss mailing list <br>
</dd>
<dd><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:APAC-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
target="_blank">
APAC-Discuss@atlarge-lists.<wbr>icann.org</a> <br>
</dd>
<dd>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/apac-discuss"
target="_blank">
https://atlarge-lists.icann.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/apac-<wbr>discuss</a><br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Homepage for the region:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.apralo.org"
target="_blank">http://www.apralo.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
</dd>
<dd>APAC-Discuss mailing list<br>
</dd>
<dd><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:APAC-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
target="_blank">
APAC-Discuss@atlarge-lists.<wbr>icann.org</a><br>
</dd>
<dd>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/apac-discuss"
target="_blank">
https://atlarge-lists.icann.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/apac-<wbr>discuss</a><br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Homepage for the region:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.apralo.org"
target="_blank">http://www.apralo.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
</dd>
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https://atlarge-lists.icann.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/apac-<wbr>discuss</a><br>
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</dd>
<dd>Homepage for the region:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.apralo.org"
target="_blank">http://www.apralo.org</a><br>
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<dd>Homepage for the region:
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<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/apac-discuss"
target="_blank">
https://atlarge-lists.icann.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/apac-<wbr>discuss</a><br>
<br>
</dd>
<dd>Homepage for the region:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.apralo.org"
target="_blank">http://www.apralo.org</a><br>
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<dd>APAC-Discuss mailing list<br>
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<dd><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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target="_blank">
https://atlarge-lists.icann.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/apac-<wbr>discuss</a><br>
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<dd>Homepage for the region:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.apralo.org"
target="_blank">http://www.apralo.org</a><br>
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<br>
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<dd>APAC-Discuss mailing list<br>
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href="mailto:APAC-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
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https://atlarge-lists.icann.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/apac-<wbr>discuss</a><br>
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<dd>Homepage for the region:
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target="_blank">http://www.apralo.org</a><br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
APAC-Discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:APAC-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org">APAC-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/apac-discuss">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/apac-discuss</a>
Homepage for the region: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.apralo.org">http://www.apralo.org</a></pre>
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