<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Alan Greenberg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><span class="">
"But how do we recognise the ones who do the work?"<br><br></span>
At the moment, and for the reasonable future, all we need to do is ask
those who claim to be part of At-Large what their affiliation is. I think
this is a reason able thing to task At-Large Staff with.</div></blockquote><br><div>I agree. This is what our due diligence currently does.<br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">satish</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div class="h5"><br><br>
At 03/12/2017 08:08 PM, Maureen Hilyard wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote type="cite" class="m_6255289502724776157cite"><div><div class="h5">Hi Alan<br><br>
Exactly.. You are correct that we don't currently have these rules
in APRALO at the moment.. However, APRALO is continuing a conversation we
started in Abu Dhabi about how to engage our ALSes and individual members
better, but also acknowledging those who are doing the work, rather than
those who have official titles and don't do anything. <br><br>
But how do we recognise the ones who do the work?<br><br>
I plan to call a formal meeting of an APRALO working group, to formalise
some of the ideas we are proposing in this conversation, which we will
propose to the wider At-Large working group later on.<br><br>
M. <br><br>
<br><br>
On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Alan Greenberg
<<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>
> wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>"But if these designated personnel do not actively participate
then the ALS can be deregistered. But what if there are other individual
members of the ALS who do participate - but they are NOT the contacts.
Our registration procedures do not actually stipulate what should
happen."<br><br>
</dd><dd>Maureen, unless you have such a rule in APRALO (and I could not find
one on a quick review), that is not necessarily true. The representatives
are just that, representatives. They are the ones to take formal action
on behalf of the ALS (such as vote if and when there are votes). An ALS
judged to be active can be because other members of the ALS are active in
At-Large and ICANN processes. <br><br>
</dd><dd>Of course the problem is that right now is that we have no practical
way of automatically recognizing this - it relies on
self-declaration or one of us "knowing" which ALS a
person is associated with.<br><br>
</dd><dd>A;an<br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
</dd><dd>At 03/12/2017 08:40 AM, Maureen Hilyard wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="m_6255289502724776157cite">
<dd>I understand what you are saying, Jahangir. An ALS's bylaws
about their leadership structure is a valid point but it is separate from
the At-Large participation issue..<br><br>
</dd><dd>ICANN is obliged to accept the names of the first and second contact
of the ALS as they are given to us when an ALS is registered because that
is our (ALAC's) current policy. But if these designated personnel do not
actively participate then the ALS can be deregistered. But what if
there are other individual members of the ALS who do participate - but
they are NOT the contacts. Our registration procedures do not actually
stipulate what should happen.<br><br>
</dd><dd>However, what the ALAC has been talking about is that when it comes
to inviting people to events, like the ATLASIII in 2019 (or whenever), we
are considering the use of metrics, so that only those individuals who
are already actively engaged, will be invited even if they are not the
designated first and second contacts that were assigned by the ALS
management, and who, in some ALS cases, never turned up to any meetings.
<br><br>
</dd><dd>The ATLAS will discuss policy, so we would like to have people
participating in the discussions who actually know about the important
ICANN issues and can contribute.<br><br>
</dd><dd>On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 2:12 AM, Jahangir Hossain
<<a href="mailto:jrjahangir@gmail.com" target="_blank">jrjahangir@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:
<dl>
<dd>Hi Maureen ,<br>
</dd><dd>I have bellow comment about the below point ;<br>
</dd><dd>So maybe, once an ALS is registered, then we simply deal with those
members who are interested and active whom we will be able to identify
via our metrics and establish as the first and second contacts for any
communications. . <br><br>
</dd><dd>Comments : Every ALS have own bylaw to run the organization . Members
of ALS select their EC/ Board members by following their bylaw who are
the valid key contact person for any communication . So if you proposed
to select first and second contacts from interested person via metrics
for any communications, this should not be represented the organization
ALS . This is because this selected person might not be elected from the
ALS by following their bylaw. So if we consider to represent the
organization ALS then we should respect the ALS's bylaw for this
issue . <br>
<br>
<br>
</dd><dd>Regards / Jahangir<br>
<br>
</dd><dd>On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 2:43 PM, Nadira Alaraj
<<a href="mailto:nadira.araj@gmail.com" target="_blank">nadira.araj@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:
<dl>
<dd>Hi Satish,
</dd><dd>Regarding to point 4.
</dd><dd>"4. The current rules on not admitting existing ALS members as
individual members to APRALO is based on the potential to weaken ALSes.
It's perhaps time that these rules are reviewed at both ALAC and RALO
levels...however, this is not a decision to be taken lightly."<br>
</dd><dd>Many of the ALSes are run by a leadership team who may have no
activities to engage their ordinary members.
</dd><dd>Here I come back to the discussion point on what is the criteria of
making sure that a certified ALS is an active ALS as they are expected to
perform certain activities related to ICANN that comply to RALO
requirements in engaging both their own community and their wider
community? If the said ALS don't do that then a potential good members of
such ALS will be of disadvantage. Then if this potential member
applied to be as individual member in APRALO if they already active in
ICANN WGs, are RALOs ready to accept their application?
</dd><dd>This leads to the importance of documentation by ALS activities on
regular or even annual basis on their wiki space as part of basic
requirements to ALS. Not satisfying this basic requirement hints to their
lack of seriousness.<br>
</dd><dd>Best,
</dd><dd>Nadira <br>
<br>
<br>
</dd><dd>On Dec 3, 2017 08:56, "Satish Babu"
<<a href="mailto:sb@inapp.com" target="_blank">sb@inapp.com</a>> wrote:
<dl>
<dd>There are several considerations that we have to be mindful of,
vis-a-vis individual members, particularly after the recent At-Large
Review:<br>
</dd><dd>1. RALOs should encourage individual members to participate in policy
processes in RALOs and At-Large. <br>
</dd><dd>2. For this, we need to ensure that individuals have low entry
barriers (ie., a light-weight admission process) compared to ALSes<br>
</dd><dd>3. The current admission process for individual members
("Trust" and not "Trust-but-verify") is based on
keeping entry barriers low, but also because we often have no other means
of verification<br>
</dd><dd>4. The current rules on not admitting existing ALS members as
individual members to APRALO is based on the potential to weaken ALSes.
It's perhaps time that these rules are reviewed at both ALAC and RALO
levels...however, this is not a decision to be taken lightly.<br>
</dd><dd>We are in the early phase of inducting individual members. We have to
learn as we go and fine-tune our rules.<font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>
</font></dd><dd><font color="#888888">satish<br>
<br>
<br><br>
</font></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></blockquote></dd></dl></div></div></blockquote>
</div><dd><div><div class="h5">On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Alan Greenberg
<<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>
> wrote:
</div></div><dl>
<dd>All good questions. <br>
</dd><dd><div><div class="h5">I can even add another. Is there any harm in a person becoming an
individual member who is a member of an ALS, but is not active in that
ALS's activities with respect to being an ALS. That situation could have
applied to me - I was an individual member, but was also historically a
member of an ISOC Chapter, but only because I had ticked off a box on a
web form, not because I was active in it in any way. Would there have
been any harm in my continuing to be a "member" of that
ALS?<br><br>
</div></div></dd><dd><div><div class="h5">Ultimately, these are issues that either all RALOs must address, or
perhaps we will come up with a uniform cross-RALO criteria. An important
thing to keep in mind is that the overall target is to get people active
in ICANN processes.<br>
</div></div></dd><dd>Alan<br>
</dd><dd><div><div class="h5">At 03/12/2017 01:30 AM, Maureen Hilyard
wrote:</div></div><blockquote type="cite" class="m_6255289502724776157cite">
<dd><div><div class="h5">But should we get individual members to sign a piece of paper that
says that they officially do not belong to an ALS? <br>
</div></div></dd><dd><div><div class="h5">This discussion is important as APRALO seeks to confirm acceptable
criteria for registration of our ALSes (and any individual members who
belong to it and want to join in our discussions), as well as those who
are individual members not affiliated to any organisation. <br>
</div></div></dd><dd><div><div class="h5">I like the example of our the Abu Dhabi representative of our
individual members - due to her own personal interest in the work of
ICANN, Justine was already an active member of a couple of working groups
before she became a formal individual member of APRALO. She was a known
entity and we have welcomed her participation in our discussions as a
regional participant in the same way as we accept the inputs of the
individual members who represent the interests of their ALSes. In
past discussions, APRALO raised the point that individual members should
already be actively engaged before we register them. There has been poor
commitment by some of the individual members we currently have on our
list How do we deregister them?<br>
</div></div></dd><dd><div><div class="h5">I can appreciate that sometimes people may not be able to participate
in an organisation that meets face to face normally at a time and place
that is not convenient for everyone... and this was the reason we
encouraged individual members. But leaving an ALS to become an individual
member does not make sense to me.
</div></div></dd><dd>M
</dd><dd>. <br>
</dd><dd><div><div class="h5">On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 7:38 PM, Alan Greenberg
<<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>
> wrote:
</div></div><dl>
<dd><div><div class="h5">One has to put these things in perspective and to examine the effort
involved vs the benefits and risks.
</div></div></dd><dd><div><div class="h5">Looking at an unrelated issue, ICANN directors are subject to strict
conflict of interest rules because it is important that they not have a
personal interest when making decisions on behalf of ICANN. But all we
ask is that they sign a piece of paper affirming what their conflicts are
(if any) and assuring that should one arise, they will act properly.
</div></div></dd><dd><div><div class="h5">In the case of individual members, one has to look at the risks of
accepting people's word, the harm it would cause, and now much it would
cost/difficulty to investigate further vs the benefits.
</div></div></dd><dd>Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
</dd><dd><div><div class="h5">At 02/12/2017 07:10 PM, Maureen Hilyard wrote:<br><br>
</div></div><blockquote type="cite" class="m_6255289502724776157cite">
<dd><div><div class="h5">Sorry that was sent too early, accidentally This is really opening up
a can of worms. have to take people's word on TRUST.
</div></div></dd><dd><div><div class="h5">It has already been intimated that we might need to get the
membership lists of all our ALSes to check on whether people are
legitimately NOT members - I can just imagine trying to keep track of the
members of PICISOC or any ISOC In India.
</div></div></dd><dd><div><div class="h5">Becoming an individual member to be able to contribute on your own
behalf rather than a group's view is legitimate, but how does a single
person compete against a chartered organisation for regional funds to do
outreach so that they can fulfil the other ICANN expectations of ALses?
</div></div></dd><dd>ØKeeping the community of individual Internet users informed
about the significant news from ICANN
</dd><dd>ØPromoting outreach activities in the community of
individual Internet users
</dd><dd>ØDistributing (through posting or otherwise) an updated
agenda, news about ICANN, and information about items in the ICANN
policy-development process
</dd><dd>ØDeveloping and maintaining on-going information and
education programs, regarding ICANN and its work
</dd><dd>ØMaking public, and analyzing, ICANN's proposed policies and
its decisions and their (potential)regional impact and (potential) effect
on individuals in the region;
</dd><dd><span class="">I started to make mention of the fact that we could have to ask
people who have disagreements with their ALS managements and leave, that
they may have to bring along a letter saying that they are no longer
members. But what a hassle.
</span></dd><dd><span class="">But it is one of the thngs that I would like to discuss with an
volunteers of a group of APRALO members to discuss ALS criteria,
expectations and metrics.
</span></dd><dd><span class="">Anyone want to join, drop me a line, and I will get staff to create a
wiki space for us.
</span></dd><dd>Maureen
</dd><dd><span class="">On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Maureen Hilyard
<<a href="mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com" target="_blank">
maureen.hilyard@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
</span><dl>
<dd><span class="">This is really opening up a can of worms. have to take
people's word on TRUST.
</span></dd><dd><span class="">It has already been intimated that we might need to get the
membership lists of all our ALSes to check on whether people are
legitimately NOT members - I can just imagine trying to keep track of the
members of PICISOC or any ISOC In India.
</span></dd><dd><span class="">Becoming an individual member to be able to contribute on your own
behalf rather than a group's view is legitimate, but how does a single
person compete against a chartered organisation for regional funds to do
outreach so that thy can fulfil the other ICANN expectations in their
bylaws of ALses?</span><font size="4">
</font></dd><dd><font size="4">ØKeeping the community of individual Internet users informed
about the significant news from ICANN
</font></dd><dd><font size="4">ØPromoting outreach activities in the community of
individual Internet users
</font></dd><dd><font size="4">ØDistributing (through posting or otherwise) an updated
agenda, news about ICANN, and information about items in the ICANN
policy-development process
</font></dd><dd><font size="4">ØDeveloping and maintaining on-going information and
education programs, regarding ICANN and its work
</font></dd><dd><font size="4"> </font></dd></dl></dd></blockquote></dd></dl></dd></blockquote></dd></dl></dd>
<dd><span class=""> but we also have to be mindful, that if former ALS members
leave an organisation, they may require a formal letter indicating that
they are not longer a member as part of the RALO application process.
This will <br>
</span></dd><dd><span class="">On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 3:26 AM, Satish Babu
<<a href="mailto:sb@inapp.com" target="_blank">sb@inapp.com</a>> wrote:
<dl>
<dd>Thanks Rajnesh.
</dd><dd>The current mechanism is a self-declaration by the applicant. We have
been finding that this doesn't always work. As you have pointed out, it
is not always easy to keep track of the affiliations of organizations
that a person is a member of. We will consider revising the wording or
providing an example.<font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>
</font></dd><dd><font color="#888888">satish
</font></dd><dd><font color="#888888"> </font></dd></dl></span></dd>
<dd><span class="">On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Rajnesh Singh
<<a href="mailto:rajnesh.singh@gmail.com" target="_blank">rajnesh.singh@gmail.com</a>
> wrote:
</span><dl>
<dd><span class="">So I wonder out loud what is the process to ensure that an individual
applicant is not already a member via an ALS?
</span></dd><dd>This could get messy as one could belong to one of many ALS’
- - - like e I do for example. Sometimes hard to track, be aware
of.<br><br>
</dd><dd>Raj
</dd><dd><span class="">On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 at 1:38 pm, Maureen Hilyard
<<a href="mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com" target="_blank">
maureen.hilyard@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
</span><dl>
<dd>Hi Afifa
</dd><dd><span class="">If Buddha is already a member of ISOC Kolkata then he cannot be an
individual member? He should already be involved.<br><br>
</span></dd><dd>M :)
</dd><dd><span class="">On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 6:58 AM, Afifa Abbas
<<a href="mailto:afifa.abbas118@gmail.com" target="_blank">afifa.abbas118@gmail.com</a>
> wrote:
</span><dl>
<dd>Hi All,
</dd><dd><span class="">I met Buddha in Abu Dhabi and he seems very passionate. He reached
out to me for an outreach.
</span></dd><dd><span class="">I totally support their application.
</span></dd><dd>Regards,
</dd><dd>Afifa
</dd><dd><span class="">On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Pavan Budhrani *
<<a href="mailto:pavan@namesphere.asia" target="_blank">pavan@namesphere.asia</a>>
wrote:
</span><dl>
<dd><span class="">Please check the answers below, Staff there are some with a N/A,
please help get that information
</span></dd><dd><span class="">* Do they allow individual members?Yes
</span></dd><dd> Institutional members? N/A
</dd><dd><span class="">* What is size of their membership at this time? What proportion of
their membership are individuals?
</span></dd><dd><span class="">(10) in Board of Trustees
</span></dd><dd>(3) Audit Committee
</dd><dd><span class="">(5) in Board of Directors
</span></dd><dd>(35) other membersâ€
<div><div class="h5"></div></div></dd><dd>* Can individual members assume leadership positions?<br><br>
</dd><dd>N/A
</dd><dd>Also please help follow up with Buddha Haldar, Staff :)
</dd><dd>Thanks so much!<font color="#888888">
</font></dd><dd><font color="#888888">Pavan</font></dd><br>
<dd>On 11/21/17 9:01 PM, Satish Babu wrote:<br><br>
<dl>
<dd>* Do they allow individual members? Institutional members?
</dd><dd>* What is size of their membership at this time? What proportion of
their membership are individuals?
</dd><dd>* Can individual members assume leadership positions?<br><br>
</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl>
</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd>
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</blockquote></div><br></div></div>