[APAC-Discuss] APRALO Application for new ALS and Individual Applications

[Satish Babu]

On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
wrote:

> "But how do we recognise the ones who do the work?"
>
> At the moment, and for the reasonable future, all we need to do is ask
> those who claim to be part of At-Large what their affiliation is. I think
> this is a reason able thing to task At-Large Staff with.
>

I agree. This is what our due diligence currently does.






satish








>
>
> At 03/12/2017 08:08 PM, Maureen Hilyard wrote:
>
> Hi Alan
>
> Exactly..  You are correct that we don't currently have these rules in
> APRALO at the moment.. However, APRALO is continuing a conversation we
> started in Abu Dhabi about how to engage our ALSes and individual members
> better, but also acknowledging those who are doing the work, rather than
> those who have official titles and don't do anything.
>
> But how do we recognise the ones who do the work?
>
> I plan to call a formal meeting of an APRALO working group, to formalise
> some of the ideas we are proposing in this conversation, which we will
> propose to the wider At-Large working group later on.
>
> M.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
> > wrote:
> "But if these designated personnel do not actively participate then the
> ALS can be deregistered. But what if there are other individual members of
> the ALS who do participate - but they are NOT the contacts. Our
> registration procedures do not actually stipulate what should happen."
>
> Maureen, unless you have such a rule in APRALO (and I could not find one
> on a quick review), that is not necessarily true. The representatives are
> just that, representatives. They are the ones to take formal action on
> behalf of the ALS (such as vote if and when there are votes). An ALS judged
> to be active can be because other members of the ALS are active in At-Large
> and ICANN processes.
>
> Of course the problem is that right now is that we have no practical way
> of automatically recognizing this - it relies on self-declaration  or one
> of us "knowing" which ALS a person is associated with.
>
> A;an
>
>
>
>
> At 03/12/2017 08:40 AM, Maureen Hilyard wrote:
>
> I understand what you are saying, Jahangir.  An ALS's bylaws about their
> leadership structure is a valid point but it is separate from the At-Large
> participation issue..
>
> ICANN is obliged to accept the names of the first and second contact of
> the ALS as they are given to us when an ALS is registered because that is
> our (ALAC's) current policy. But if these designated personnel do not
> actively participate then the ALS can be deregistered.  But what if there
> are other individual members of the ALS who do participate - but they are
> NOT the contacts. Our registration procedures do not actually stipulate
> what should happen.
>
> However, what the ALAC has been talking about is that when it comes to
> inviting people to events, like the ATLASIII in 2019 (or whenever), we are
> considering the use of metrics, so that only those individuals who are
> already actively engaged, will be invited even if they are not the
> designated first and second contacts that were assigned by the ALS
> management, and who, in some ALS cases, never turned up to any meetings.
>
> The ATLAS will discuss policy, so we would like to have people
> participating in the discussions who actually know about the important
> ICANN issues and can contribute.
>
> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 2:12 AM, Jahangir Hossain <jrjahangir at gmail.com>
> wrote: Hi Maureen ,
> I have bellow comment about the below point ;
> So maybe, once an ALS is registered, then we simply deal with those
> members who are interested and active whom we will be able to identify via
> our metrics and establish as the first and second contacts for any
> communications. .
>
> Comments : Every ALS have own bylaw to run the organization . Members of
> ALS select their EC/ Board members by following their bylaw who are the
> valid key contact person for any communication . So if you proposed to
> select first and second contacts from interested person via metrics for any
> communications, this should not be represented the organization ALS . This
> is because this selected person might not be elected from the ALS by
> following their bylaw. So if we consider to represent the organization ALS
> then we should respect the  ALS's bylaw for this issue .
>
>
> Regards / Jahangir
>
> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 2:43 PM, Nadira Alaraj <nadira.araj at gmail.com>
> wrote: Hi Satish, Regarding to point 4. "4. The current rules on not
> admitting existing ALS members as individual members to APRALO is based on
> the potential to weaken ALSes. It's perhaps time that these rules are
> reviewed at both ALAC and RALO levels...however, this is not a decision to
> be taken lightly."
> Many of the ALSes are run by a leadership team who may have no activities
> to engage their ordinary members.  Here I come back to the discussion
> point on what is the criteria of making sure that a certified ALS is an
> active ALS as they are expected to perform certain activities related to
> ICANN that comply to RALO requirements in engaging both their own community
> and their wider community? If the said ALS don't do that then a potential
> good members of such ALS will be of disadvantage.  Then if this potential
> member applied to be as individual member in APRALO if they already active
> in ICANN WGs, are  RALOs ready to accept their application? This leads to
> the importance of documentation by ALS activities on regular or even annual
> basis on their wiki space as part of basic requirements to ALS. Not
> satisfying this basic requirement hints to their lack of seriousness.
> Best, Nadira
>
>
> On Dec 3, 2017 08:56, "Satish Babu" <sb at inapp.com> wrote: There are
> several considerations that we have to be mindful of, vis-a-vis individual
> members, particularly after the recent At-Large Review:
> 1. RALOs should encourage individual members to participate in policy
> processes in RALOs and At-Large.
> 2. For this, we need to ensure that individuals have low entry barriers
> (ie., a light-weight admission process) compared to ALSes
> 3. The current admission process for individual members ("Trust" and not
> "Trust-but-verify") is based on keeping entry barriers low, but also
> because we often have no other means of verification
> 4. The current rules on not admitting existing ALS members as individual
> members to APRALO is based on the potential to weaken ALSes. It's perhaps
> time that these rules are reviewed at both ALAC and RALO levels...however,
> this is not a decision to be taken lightly.
> We are in the early phase of inducting individual members. We have to
> learn as we go and fine-tune our rules.
>
>
>
>
>
> satish
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
> > wrote:
> All good questions.
> I can even add another. Is there any harm in a person becoming an
> individual member who is a member of an ALS, but is not active in that
> ALS's activities with respect to being an ALS. That situation could have
> applied to me - I was an individual member, but was also historically a
> member of an ISOC Chapter, but only because I had ticked off a box on a web
> form, not because I was active in it in any way. Would there have been any
> harm in my continuing to be a "member" of that ALS?
>
> Ultimately, these are issues that either all RALOs must address, or
> perhaps we will come up with a uniform cross-RALO criteria. An important
> thing to keep in mind is that the overall target is to get people active in
> ICANN processes.
> Alan
> At 03/12/2017 01:30 AM, Maureen Hilyard wrote:
>
> But should we get individual members to sign a piece of paper that says
> that they officially do not belong to an ALS?
> This discussion is important as APRALO seeks to confirm acceptable
> criteria for registration of our ALSes (and any individual members who
> belong to it and want to join in our discussions), as well as those who are
> individual members not affiliated to any organisation.
> I like the example of our the Abu Dhabi representative of our individual
> members - due to her own personal interest in the work of ICANN, Justine
> was already an active member of a couple of working groups before she
> became a formal individual member of APRALO. She was a known entity and we
> have welcomed her participation in our discussions as a regional
> participant in the same way as we accept the inputs of the individual
> members who represent  the interests of their ALSes. In past discussions,
> APRALO raised the point that individual members should already be actively
> engaged before we register them. There has been poor commitment by some of
> the individual members we currently have on our list  How do we deregister
> them?
> I can appreciate that sometimes people may not be able to participate in
> an organisation that meets face to face normally at a time and place that
> is not convenient for everyone... and this was the reason we encouraged
> individual members. But leaving an ALS to become an individual member does
> not make sense to me.
> M .
> On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 7:38 PM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
> > wrote:
> One has to put these things in perspective and to examine the effort
> involved vs the benefits and risks.
> Looking at an unrelated issue, ICANN directors are subject to strict
> conflict of interest rules because it is important that they not have a
> personal interest when making decisions on behalf of ICANN. But all we ask
> is that they sign a piece of paper affirming what their conflicts are (if
> any) and assuring that should one arise, they will act properly.
> In the case of individual members, one has to look at the risks of
> accepting people's word, the harm it would cause, and now much it would
> cost/difficulty to investigate further vs the benefits.
> Alan
>
>
> At 02/12/2017 07:10 PM, Maureen Hilyard wrote:
>
> Sorry that was sent too early, accidentally This is really opening up a
> can of worms.   have to take people's word on TRUST.
> It has already been intimated that we might need to get the membership
> lists of all our ALSes to check on whether people are legitimately NOT
> members - I can just imagine trying to keep track of the members of PICISOC
> or any ISOC In India.
> Becoming an individual member to be able to contribute on your own behalf
> rather than a group's view is legitimate, but how does a single person
> compete against a chartered organisation for regional funds to do outreach
> so that they can fulfil the other ICANN expectations of ALses?
> ØKeeping the community of individual Internet users informed
> about the significant news from ICANN ØPromoting outreach
> activities in the community of individual Internet users ØDistributing
> (through posting or otherwise) an updated agenda, news about ICANN, and
> information about items in the ICANN policy-development process ØDeveloping
> and maintaining on-going information and education programs, regarding
> ICANN and its work ØMaking public, and analyzing, ICANN's
> proposed policies and its decisions and their (potential)regional impact
> and (potential) effect on individuals in the region; I started to make
> mention of the fact that we could have to ask people who have disagreements
> with their ALS managements and leave, that they may have to bring along a
> letter saying that they are no longer members. But what a hassle. But it
> is one of the thngs that I would like to discuss with an volunteers of a
> group of APRALO members to discuss ALS criteria, expectations and metrics. Anyone
> want to join, drop me a line, and I will get staff to create a wiki space
> for us. Maureen On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Maureen Hilyard <
> maureen.hilyard at gmail.com> wrote: This is really opening up a can of
> worms.   have to take people's word on TRUST. It has already been
> intimated that we might need to get the membership lists of all our ALSes
> to check on whether people are legitimately NOT members - I can just
> imagine trying to keep track of the members of PICISOC or any ISOC In
> India. Becoming an individual member to be able to contribute on your own
> behalf rather than a group's view is legitimate, but how does a single
> person compete against a chartered organisation for regional funds to do
> outreach so that thy can fulfil the other ICANN expectations in their
> bylaws of ALses? ØKeeping the community of individual Internet
> users informed about the significant news from ICANN ØPromoting
> outreach activities in the community of individual Internet users ØDistributing
> (through posting or otherwise) an updated agenda, news about ICANN, and
> information about items in the ICANN policy-development process ØDeveloping
> and maintaining on-going information and education programs, regarding
> ICANN and its work
>
>   but we also have to be mindful, that if former ALS members leave an
> organisation, they may require a formal letter indicating that they are not
> longer a member as part of the RALO application process. This will
> On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 3:26 AM, Satish Babu <sb at inapp.com> wrote: Thanks
> Rajnesh. The current mechanism is a self-declaration by the applicant. We
> have been finding that this doesn't always work. As you have pointed out,
> it is not always easy to keep track of the affiliations of organizations
> that a person is a member of. We will consider revising the wording or
> providing an example.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> satish   On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Rajnesh Singh <
> rajnesh.singh at gmail.com > wrote: So I wonder out loud what is the process
> to ensure that an individual applicant is not already a member via an ALS? This
> could get messy as one could belong to one of many ALS’ - - - like
> e I do for example. Sometimes hard to track, be aware of.
>
> Raj On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 at 1:38 pm, Maureen Hilyard <
> maureen.hilyard at gmail.com> wrote: Hi Afifa If Buddha is already a member
> of ISOC Kolkata then he cannot be an individual member? He should already
> be involved.
>
> M :) On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 6:58 AM, Afifa Abbas <
> afifa.abbas118 at gmail.com > wrote: Hi All, I met Buddha in Abu Dhabi and
> he seems very passionate. He reached out to me for an outreach. I totally
> support their application. Regards, Afifa On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 7:43
> AM, Pavan Budhrani * <pavan at namesphere.asia> wrote: Please check the
> answers below, Staff there are some with a N/A, please help get that
> information * Do they allow individual members?Yes    Institutional
> members? N/A * What is size of their membership at this time? What
> proportion of their membership are individuals? (10) in Board of Trustees (3)
> Audit Committee (5) in Board of Directors (35) other membersâ€
> * Can individual members assume leadership positions?
>
> N/A Also please help follow up with Buddha Haldar, Staff :) Thanks so
> much! Pavan
> On 11/21/17 9:01 PM, Satish Babu wrote:
>
> * Do they allow individual members? Institutional members? * What is size
> of their membership at this time? What proportion of their membership are
> individuals? * Can individual members assume leadership positions?
>
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