[APAC-Discuss] [ALAC-Internal] ALS Application: Netmission.ASIA

Sivasubramanian M isolatedn at gmail.com
Wed Apr 6 05:55:10 UTC 2011


Dear Cheryl, Fouad,


On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 7:13 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Cheryl,
>
> Indeed, your detailed explanation of the question in argument gives me
> complete guidance and I had also stepped towards referring to these
> guidelines laying out the minimum criteria for an At-Large Structure.
>
> Surely and firmly, I wouldn't want ALAC to go that way at all
> especially because of APRALO.
>
> There are more pressing issues at hand in APRALO to work with and I
> would definitely not be looking towards triggering any such arguments
> within ALAC.
>
> Once again I thank you for sharing your experienced guidance with me
> and others on the list and I hope this issue now stands resolved as to
> a good topic for discussion but not necessary to take forward unless
> it comes up in the APRALO meeting and should it be discussed and find
> the need for further exploration, which personally I believe should
> not be the case.
>
> As a concluding remark, I believe Siva being a colleague fellow of the
> Net Mission Ambassadors and actually also introducing some of them to
> APRALO in the SF APRALO meeting shows that he very well had the
> knowledge of Net Mission members and participants. Secondly, if we all
> follow the Asia Pacific IGF, the secondary application in the
> application Elaine Cheng was one of the organizers of the AP-IGF:
> http://rigf.asia/sponsors-and-supporters/ during which some of our
> ALAC and APRALO members were also present.
>

I am not opposing the Netmission application here. What I observed is that
this application and most ALS applications are short of a list of members
and some basic details. My observation is not to be interpreted as a
suggestion to do a due diligence on each and every member, which is what
appears to be Fouad's interpretation

 "if the process got involved in checking with each individual their
> background, that would be first an invasion on one's privacy and secondly
> it would become a hassle for such a process to fulfill what it is
> objectively designed and structured to do "


That is not what I have implied.

Let's think of an imaginary situation. If I were to put up an ALS
application, with my company employees as members, how would APRALO / ALAC
understand the absence of diversity?  If the member list is furnished in the
format Name + Company + City + contact information + any other
organizational affiliation + some information about the member / officer's
interest in ICANN AT-Large, it would become easier to look at the list and
at a quick glance assess if there is a balance.

This would not be an extraordinarily difficult change for the RALO and ALAC
to adopt and call for.

Thank you
Sivasubramanian M

>
> I would consider this argument concluded and apologize for the
> attention it drew from everyone's time.
>
> --
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 6:08 AM, Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Fouad  you outline many of the concerns  ALAC  would be discussing and
> > debating if such a proposal for change was ever to get that far  and of
> > course we would also no doubt need to audit  changes and claims made in
> > application of existing ALSes  (just to be fair)   Happy Google searching
> on
> > all the Members we could list for ISOC-AU and indeed the Membership pf
> the
> > Organisational Members we list   I think you see the tone of my personal
> > view on this... BUT  should APRALO desire a change to these ALS
> application
> > forms  you now know  how that would need to be approached if it were to
> have
> > any chance of it happening...
> > Also note please the Criteria  for becoming an ALS does not discuss the
> need
> > for "members"  per se at all...
> > see http://www.atlarge.icann.org/correspondence/structures-app.htm   but
> > rather the criteria is that the minimum standards ARE :
> >
> > Minimum criteria for an At-Large Structure:
> >
> > Commit to supporting individual Internet users' informed participation in
> > ICANN by distributing to individual constituents/members information on
> > relevant ICANN activities and issues, offering Internet-based mechanisms
> > that enable discussions of one or more of these activities and issues
> among
> > individual constituents/members, and involving individual
> > constituents/members in relevant ICANN policy development, discussions
> and
> > decisions.
> > Be organised so that participation by individual Internet users who are
> > citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region in which
> the
> > ALS is based will predominate in the ALS' operation. The ALS may permit
> > additional participation by others that is compatible with the interests
> of
> > the individual Internet users within the region.
> > Be self-supporting (not rely on ICANN for funding).
> > Post on the Internet (on the ALAC's website or elsewhere)
> > publicly-accessible, current information about the ALS's goals,
> structure,
> > description of constituent group(s)/membership, working mechanisms,
> > leadership, and contact(s).
> > Assist the RALO in performing its function
> >  FROM http://www.atlarge.icann.org/correspondence/structures-app.htm
> >
> > As well as  "Guidelines for Evaluating an ALS" document where the matters
> of
> > 'Membership'  etc.,  (amongst other matters) is outlined in full,   EN
> >  version  is found
> > at
> https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/2263023/ALAC-2007-SD-2-Rev7%2520ALS%2520Application%2520Interpretation%2520Guidelines%2520-%2520EN.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1283970985000
> >
> > Cheryl Langdon-Orr
> > (CLO)
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6 April 2011 10:22, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Cheryl and all,
> >>
> >> Thank you for sharing this in much detail as it adds to my knowledge
> >> as well about how the due diligence works. I believe it is crucial to
> >> note here that if the process got involved in checking with each
> >> individual their background, that would be first an invasion on one's
> >> privacy and secondly it would become a hassle for such a process to
> >> fulfill what it is objectively designed and structured to do.
> >>
> >> I want to take a brief moment here to explain how I look at
> >> applications for joining ALAC through APRALO:
> >>
> >> As far as Net Mission application is concerned I believe that since
> >> Siva was part of the ICANN fellowship program and there were "adopted
> >> fellows" this time from Net Mission in the San Francisco meeting, and
> >> I was able to attend most of those fellowship meetings as well as
> >> Olivier, the two participants from Net Mission did share quite some
> >> information during my interactions. I got to meet the group during the
> >> IGF in Lithuania as well. Its important to note that these young
> >> participants have found their path in ICANN through ALAC and APRALO.
> >>
> >> Another thing to note is that Net Mission Ambassadors are very vocal,
> >> transparent and public. Two members participated in the APRALO meeting
> >> and I believe Siva took the kind liberty of introducing them in the
> >> meeting. One of the ambassador, Michelle Qin has also blogged about
> >> her experience at
> >>
> http://join.ust.hk/blog/michelle-qin/40th-icann-conference-san-francisco.
> >> Interesting when we do a search with the names provided in the
> >> application such as Richard Cheng the following information pops up
> >> http://icannwiki.com/index.php/Richard_Cheng.
> >>
> >> Each member listed in the application displays significant
> >> participation within ICANN or IGF processes such as Bianca Ho was
> >> participating in the IGF and this the workshop officially approved and
> >> delivered:
> >>
> http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/chronocontact/?chronoformname=WSProposals2010View&wspid=75
> >> If any of our members would like more proof, Net Mission's annual
> >> report is a very good evidence of what all these members do:
> >>
> >>
> http://www.ycig.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/NM-annual-report-2009-10-eng-web.pdf
> .
> >> In fact each member in that list has details on the web and if I
> >> wander to Yvonne Lee, search returns
> >> http://sites.google.com/site/yvonneseportfoliobackup/page. These
> >> members appear in very good standing, active and I would like to hear
> >> their young point of views on Internet user related issues.
> >>
> >> Personally speaking, checking on every member of a given ALS
> >> application would cause a breach of privacy and on an my own personal
> >> individual basis I would not support such a practice neither encourage
> >> it within APRALO though consensus is a separate subject.
> >>
> >> Maybe such would be otherwise if we initiated the inclusion of
> >> individual membership in the future because then an individual would
> >> have to go through due diligence. I still have to seek guidance from
> >> Cheryl and Olivier in this matter on how to structure such an option
> >> in my proposal to APRALO in the near future.
> >>
> >> I look forward to Net Mission's application receiving due diligence
> >> and it would indeed be a pleasure to meet up with these young leaders
> >> again in our interactions during the Singapore meeting.
> >>
> >> Take care all.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Regards.
> >> --------------------------
> >> Fouad Bajwa
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 4:24 AM, Cheryl Langdon-Orr <
> langdonorr at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Hi Siva  what goes into being an ALS application form for ICANN is
> >> >  decided
> >> > by ALAC and approved / negotiated with ICANN (usually Legal advise the
> >> > Board
> >> > on this)  and ALAC go through considerable work with ICANN Legal  on
> >> > ramifications, purpose and effect of any such changes to ALS
> application
> >> > forms and the processes associated with them...
> >> >
> >> > FYI  the last major overhaul of this system and forms  started in 2007
> >> > at
> >> > the LA Meeting  and was completed in 2008... and was in part
> responding
> >> > to a
> >> > matter of complaint (against ALAC) that had been dealt with by the
> then
> >> > ICANN Ombudsman... and it is from his recommendations  that we also
> >> > strive
> >> > so carefully to review ALS applications in such a timely manner and
> have
> >> > in
> >> > the public record the status and progression of received applications.
> >> >
> >> > So if a Region (such as APRALO)  believe  changes  to or additional
> >> > information is desirable to assist in the role that the RALO Officers
> >> > have
> >> > in conducting their part in the Regional Advice on an ALS applicant
> >> >  (which is done after the Due Diligence phase), then the way to get
> this
> >> > to
> >> > happen is to request the RALO  to have these suggestions and
> >> > the rational etc.,  for them  brought  forward  to the ALAC and to
> >> > request a
> >> > process of ALS application form (and possible processing standards
> >> > etc.,)
> >> >  set for a formal review...
> >> >
> >> > Do let me know if I can assist APRALO with doing any of that...
> >> >
> >> > Cheryl Langdon-Orr
> >> > (CLO)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 6 April 2011 03:07, Sivasubramanian M <isolatedn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hello
> >> >>
> >> >> Could there be a section in the ALS application form the applicant to
> >> >> furnish a list of members, each listed with some basic particulars as
> >> >> their
> >> >> profession, the name of the organization they belong to, their
> position
> >> >> and
> >> >> contact information? That would give us an idea about the diversity
> of
> >> >> the
> >> >> member base of the proposed ALS.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thank you.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Sivasubramanian M
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Dear Marilyn,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thank you for the update on the application submission by Net
> >> >> > Mission.
> >> >> > We look forward to the due diligence completion and are positive
> >> >> > about
> >> >> > Net Mission Hong Kong's possible participation in APRALO.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Best
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Fouad
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 5:09 AM, Marilyn Vernon
> >> >> > <staff at atlarge.icann.org>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > > Dear all,
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > This is to inform you that we received an ALS application from
> >> >> > > Netmission.ASIA. It is based in Tsim Sha Tsui, Hong Kong and
> would
> >> >> > > be a
> >> >> > > member of APRALO if accepted.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Please find the application form attached. The regional liaison
> for
> >> >> Asia
> >> >> > > Pacific has been informed and will provide us with due diligence
> >> >> > > for
> >> >> this
> >> >> > > application in due course.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --
> >> >> > > Regards,
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Heidi Ullrich, Gisella Gruber-White, Seth Greene, Marilyn Vernon
> >> >> > > ICANN At-Large Staff
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>



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