<div dir="auto"><div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Sent from my mobile<br>Kindly excuse brevity and typos</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, 7 May 2018, 13:19 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com">ocl@gih.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Dear Carlton,<br>
<br>
I can understand that on the one hand, the whole exercise seems to
be a very very long winded way to proceed forward, thus appearing
more like a delaying tactic than anything else. But on the other,
this is how ICANN has addressed every challenge it has had to
resolve. I deplore that often-times the community appears to want to
re-invent the wheel.<br>
For instance, is it really the responsibility of the ICANN community
to define "What is the Open Internet?"<br></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">SO: Ditto! I did not imagine that the auction proceed will be another ICANN CCWG on accountability-like in terms of duration of completion. What you have said above in terms of attempt to make definitions was what some of us cautioned against and ask that if we must then we should make it simple and not dwell on it too much.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It is either ICANN processes is not good enough to maintain consistent participation of "non-paid volunteers" OR that there is an intentional effort by certain parts of the community to complicate things until non-paid volunteers bandwidth Max out and they voluntarily reduce their participation.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Regards</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Kindest regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
<div class="m_8774189301475767525moz-cite-prefix">On 07/05/2018 14:44, Carlton Samuels
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">My Dear Maureen:
<div dir="auto">Many thanks for this response. It helped me a
lot.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">In my experience when a simple question becomes
captive to the kind of 'deep science' you describe, it is a
febrile attempt to derail, as in talk it to death. And
regrettably, we might all have been co-opted as unwitting
co-conspirators. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">That the proceeds be used to
promote/preserve/maintain ICANN's mission values is a
no-brainer/No hands decision.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">That all this while is spent on how to decide
what that is can reasonably described as purely an exercise in
lily gilding.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">That all the time is spent on how to manage the
fund is not a policy discussion and in my humble opinion, is
happening in a place where those skills - money management
chiefly - are not apparent.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">There are fund managers in this world who are
pretty well established. They charge anywhere from 2-3% of
value to do that. And that is connected to the results. I
double dare anyone to guarantee that cost/benefit in the ICANN
organisation.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The best a policy-setting group should do is to
decide whether this is a fund in perpetuity and if so, what
portion of it shall be available for funding projects
annually.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The best that a multistakeholder group could do
in this entire exercise is to accept the role to determine
what projects make the cut for
promoting/preserving/maintaining ICANN's mission and values
when use is the question during the operational phase.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">It really isn't rocket science.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Best</div>
<div dir="auto">-Carlton.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, 7 May 2018, 4:46 am Maureen Hilyard, <<a href="mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">maureen.hilyard@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Carlton and Holly
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I guess it does seem convoluted but that may be a
perception of the GNSO processes.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But for every stage of the Auction Proceeds meetings
and in-between meeting discussions, there have been some
really interesting and comprehensive debates around topics
such as <b>The Charter and the Mission</b> of the group;
<b>What is the Open Internet</b>? (and we still are out on
that one); <b>Who should Benefit</b>? (was among the
first things we discussed, and we were all tasked with
making recommendations and then evaluating all the
recommendations in order to come up with a core set of
criteria on which applications might be based,a key one
being that it must focus on CANN's mission); Whether ICANN
should use <b>Auction Proceeds for its Reserve Fund </b>(there
was a wide range of opinions on that topic); and for ages
now we have looked at H<b>ow the Funds might be Managed.</b>
After we had looked at several options and come up with a
shortlist of mechanisms, we then asked a number of
volunteer experts to give their opinion on our final
four. For this survey, we are using their recommendations
as our guide to assess which mechanism we each might
suggest as the most appropriate one for this group to
recommend to the Board. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Carlton selected an external organisation taking
control of the management of the funds with ICANN having
oversight. Like you, I personally would prefer an
independent ICANN Foundation with the CCWG recommendations
being the over-riding influence in how it is managed.
However, I realise that there is a cost factor involved in
the Foundation option which limits it a bit, especially as
we have not yet decided on a sunset period. But giving it
over to an external organisation with its own goals and
objectives, and with ICANN supervising, doesn't go down
well for me (even though they may be a high-flier
international organisation with huge experience in giving
away donor money. But how do we ensure that they are
interpreting our criteria for beneficiaries and purposes
appropriately?). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But that's my take on what we are doing anyway. We have
a very active and enthusiastic team of members, so I am
really looking forward to the results of this survey. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Maureen </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 11:05 PM,
Carlton Samuels <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">carlton.samuels@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Thanks to Vanda for bringing the subject
matter to our attention.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">A big +1 to Holly's. I share every
concern and question noted. I should think Option 4
is preferred.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Why so convoluted? Reminds me of a
story used by a former boss - an ex-army 3-star
general - to characterise something like this when
presented. He'd say the 2 hump camel was what
emerged when an earnest committee got together to
plan a better race horse.</div>
<span class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Carlton</div>
</font></span></div>
<div class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369HOEnZb">
<div class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369h5"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Sun, 6 May 2018, 8:51 pm Holly
Raiche, <<a href="mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">h.raiche@internode.on.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">First - thank
you Vanda with sharing this with ALAC. I hope
this discussion can migrate somewhere beyond
just this email so that everyone can easily
find and comment on it.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Now, to be devil’s advocate. Why is the
group seeking comment on how the funds are
managed rather than how they are allocated.
It seems to me that the most important
question is how the funds will be spent -
and heaven knows ALAC has already
contributed to this discussion. Some of the
suggestions over time have been that the
funds should support applications from
underserved areas, and/or help fund
community (better defined) applications. We
also had concerns about some of the funds
being used to reduce ICANN debt. But all
that was about allocation - not the
mechanism of allocation itself.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So I am really less concerned with the
allocation METHOD, and more concerned with
the beneficiaries of the allocation.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That said, I will comment on the options.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Option One: I am a bit concerned with yet
another Department within ICANN. They are -
we are told - cutting back on expenditure.
Creating a new Department will be heading
the other way.</div>
<div>Option 2: I particularly do not favour
Option 2 because it assumes that the money
may be spent on charitable purposes. If the
decision is to assist underserved areas, the
focus will be very different to ‘charitable
purposes;</div>
<div>Option 3 & 4: I’d prefer something
like a Foundation - so that the funds really
are separate, and so would be happier with
Options 3 or 4. I would prefer Option 4,
but with the condition that if it is to
evaluate proposals (good idea) then it must
have multistakeholder membership and not
simply be a creature of ICANN Org. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hope that helps</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Holly</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 7 May 2018, at 8:19 am, Vanda
Scartezini <<a href="mailto:vanda@scartezini.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">vanda@scartezini.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="white" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789WordSection1">
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>Dear Alan, other
ALAC friends</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> In the Auction
proceeds CCWG we are asked to
respond to a survey.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>Since from the
responses from this survey the
proposals for the report will be
more defined, we were encouraged
to get some feedback from the
group we are acting with, in
this case ALAC, and share our
ideas and get your feedbacks if
possible</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>There are several
questions but in my view some
will define others and I would
like to hear from you, your
thoughts</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> For me the
relevant question is related to
the model</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>Please take a
look at<span class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://community.icann.org/display/CWGONGAP/CCWG+Charter" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/display/CWGONGAP/CCWG+Charter</a></span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>To understand the
question.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> All financial
resource shall be granted to
projects under the mission of
ICANN and only for that.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>Sorry we have to
finalize the survey till
Miercoles May 9 , so if you can
give feedback during Monday 7and
Tuesday8 I really appreciate.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>Here the options
for the most relevant question
in my opinion I would like to
have some inputs before respond
the survey: which will be the
best option, think about
process, cost, efficiency…</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>The working group
has come up with 4 different
possible mechanisms that could
be considered:</span></div>
<ol start="1" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-top:0in" type="1">
<li class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>A New ICANN
Proceeds Allocation<span class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Department
is created as part of ICANN</b>,
the organisation (ICANN Org)-
This department would be part
of ICANN Org and<span class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>take
full responsibility</b><span class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789Apple-converted-space"> </span>for
solicitation and evaluation of
proposals, and disbursement
process.</span></li>
<li class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>New ICANN
Proceeds Allocation<span class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Department
Created</b><span class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789Apple-converted-space"> </span>as
part of ICANN Org which would<span class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>work
in collaboration with an
existing charitable
organization(</b>s)
Responsibilities for
solicitation and evaluation of
proposals, and disbursement
process would be split between
the newly created department
and the existing charitable
organization(s).</span></li>
<li class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>A<span class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>new
structure would be created
(e.g. ICANN foundation</b>)
- A new structure would be
created separate of ICANN Org
which would be responsible for
solicitation and evaluation of
proposals, and disbursement
process</span></li>
</ol>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></div>
<ol start="4" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-top:0in" type="1">
<li class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><span>An
established entity/entities</span></b><span><span class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789Apple-converted-space"> </span>(e.g.
foundation or fund) are used (<b>ICANN
would organize the oversight
of processes to ensure
mission and fiduciary duties
are met</b>) - An stablished
entity / entities (e.g.
foundation or fund) would be
responsible for solicitation
and evaluation of proposals,
and disbursement process.</span></li>
</ol>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>Thank you</span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,145,147)">Vanda Scartezini</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt"></span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,145,147)">Polo Consultores
Associados</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt"></span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,145,147)">Av. Paulista<span class="m_8774189301475767525m_-8677183076654867369m_1796233250040927279m_184113610661822789Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,145,147)" lang="PT-BR">1159, cj 1004</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt" lang="PT-BR"></span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,145,147)">01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP,
Brazil</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt"></span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,145,147)">Land Line: +55 11
3266.6253</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt"></span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,145,147)">Mobile: + 55 11
98181.1464 </span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt"></span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,145,147)">Sorry for any typos. </span></i></b></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:'Century Gothic',serif"> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
ALAC mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac</a><br>
<br>
At-Large Online: <a href="http://www.atlarge.icann.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.atlarge.icann.org</a><br>
ALAC Working Wiki: <a href="https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(ALAC)" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(ALAC)</a></blockquote></div></div></div>