<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Thank you Evin. that is very helpful<div><br></div><div>My suggestion is that you put the text of my email, Alan’s response and my response to him - (the last two are very recent) and then everyone can both read and comment on this issue</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks again for being so helpful</div><div><br></div><div>Holly<br><div><div>On 17 Apr 2018, at 5:48 pm, Evin Erdogdu <<a href="mailto:evin.erdogdu@icann.org">evin.erdogdu@icann.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Dear Holly, Alan and All,<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I have created a workspace for the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=84215655" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">Data Protection/Privacy Issues Update: Soliciting Community Input on Article 29 Guidance</a>.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Holly, I have assigned you as penholder, but please let me know if that was not your intention.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Evin<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt;">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;">ALAC <<a href="mailto:alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>> on behalf of Alan Greenberg <<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>><br><b>Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 9:59 AM<br><b>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Holly Raiche <<a href="mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">h.raiche@internode.on.net</a>>, ALAC <<a href="mailto:alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>><br><b>Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [ALAC] ALAC Response to Accreditation Model - due date 20 April<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Holly I have been travelling and am ties up in meetings all day (Brussels time), but I hope to add some comments later tonight.<br><br>I caution care in interpreting the Article 29 letter. Despite some valid concerns, it shows an astounding lack of knowledge of the Internet and ICANN's mission. As a prime example is their advice to just focus on our own business and not that of others such as law enforcement or those combatting cyber issues. Our mission is to protect the DNS and that includes making it reliable and safe. But we do not have the ability to do that ourselves and thus must provide the tools for others to do that. If we fail, we are NOT carrying out our mission.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>This will get more interesting in coming weeks.<br><br>Alan<br><br><br><br>At 16/04/2018 07:58 PM, Holly Raiche wrote:<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Folks<br><br>We are fast running out of time to develop any kind of response to the accreditation model, even though the deadline for a response has been extended to this Friday. And in the interim, ICANN has received advice from Article 29 on the Interim model. (Article 29 is an advisory Group made up of a data protection authority from each EU member state). Their letter to ICANN, and Marby?s response, are on the home page of ICANN - and for those interested in the issue, I highly recommend reading both. Clearly, the implications of the Article 29 letter are that the Interim Model that we did comment on still raises concerns with them. Those concerns fall under the headings:<o:p></o:p></div><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Breadth of purpose - saying the proposed purposes are too widely drawn<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">the link of purpose to processing - again, because the Whois data has been used does not qualify it as a purpose<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">publication of the data must be linked to the original (and narrowly defined) purpose<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">any access should be limited - not blanket access<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">discussion about the length of retention of data<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">discussion about the transfer of data<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Accreditation (particularly important in this context) - should only be for legitimate purpose, limited to the original purpose, not blanket access, and under limited conditions<o:p></o:p></li></ul><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br>Below, I have copied in an email from Scott Hollenbeck, a long standing member of ICANN and one of those involved in the development of the RDAP (access protocol that would allow gated access to registration data) - simply because he has been involved in this issue for a long time and shows he has already worked on a technical solution to this issue - how access to data could work under GDPR.<br><br>I will try to attend as much as possible of the capacity building webinar on this issue, but have been scheduled to attend an all-day course in the Sydney CBD so may have to miss some of the discussion. I imagine Tom will be very up to date on these issues, but I would like to have been attending the whole of the webinar myself<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>In any case, if at all possible, we should be saying something. Quite apart from the original contribution from the IPC/BC model, the NCSG and Registrars have also made comments (largely challenging the IPC/BC model). I hope we are the one constituency that doesn?t make comments - although I realise that agreement on what to say will be difficult at the best of times.<br><br>And if it isn?t too late - maybe put this issue on the ALAC policy page - and with it, links to the Article 29 letter, Marby?s response, the registrars? response and the NCSG response (and any others I have missed - I have copies if that helps)<br><br>Holly<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br>Hi all.<br><br>After reading the Article 29 WP letter to ICANN<br>(<a href="awbs://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/jelinek-to-marby-" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>awbs://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/jelinek-to-marby-</a><br>11apr18-en.pdf), I started envisioning what process and system could<br>achieve GDPR compliance. What I came to is a token-based system, which<br>would work like this:<br>- Every request is analyzed by a human at an "RDS Clearinghouse". Each<br>request can be for a single data element (like "owner of domain X") or to<br>multiple data elements (like "domains owned by the same owner of domain<br>X"), but requests for multiple data elements are only foreseen to be<br>processed by contracted parties with "Search WHOIS" contract requirements.<br>- Clearinghouse issues a token with query parameters, data elements<br>authorized for response, identity of authorized party, reason for<br>authorization, validity (probably in the order of days), also informing<br>which endpoint to go to.<br>- Authorized party uses that token to access that endpoint, managed by the<br>party with most data about that element (usually a registrar).<br><br>Note that is not a replacement for credentialing; credentials would still<br>be necessary to get tokens. This is also orthogonal to discussions like<br>which use cases are legitimate or not, GDPR-compliant or not etc.; it's<br>just a more granular approach to authorization that looks more inline with<br>privacy-oriented guidelines including but not limited to GDPR.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br>Rubens, at a high level you just described how OpenID and OAuth work, except for the "Every request is analyzed by a human" part.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br>Scott,<br><br>I believe you are right, although most OAuth models I saw were not that granular to the point of saying "example.TLD, owner, e-mail address, valid until April 20 2018". That's not an OAuth limitation though, just common usage, and it probably could be made to work like this.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>And some level of asynchronous communications could even make way for a quick look human analysis.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br><br>Rubens<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br>I have this very model, with human involvement, up and running right now as part of the gTLD RDAP Pilot. All of the attributes you mentioned can be encoded as OAuth claims. The model is described in an Internet-Draft that I first wrote in 2015. 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