<div dir="auto">I would add my +1 to Andrei on this.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheers!</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On May 2, 2017 22:01, "Andrei Kolesnikov" <<a href="mailto:andrei@rol.ru">andrei@rol.ru</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Dear Kaili, I love California, but not LA area... I would appreciate, if ICANN is an NGO registered in Switzerland, but lets be real.<br></div><div><br>Well, we saw an attempt to start the discussion to use ICANN reserves to promote awareness and the reaction to it. Definitely ICANN is a multistakeholder org :)<br></div><br></div>Also ALAC is not representing the billions of end-users (thanks God, whatever he/she is). But a portion of expert community. This is where I'm speaking for myself. The beauty of ICANN is that we all carry different views...<br><br></div>Yours, --andrei<br><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-05-01 18:59 GMT+03:00 Kan Kaili <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kankaili@gmail.com" target="_blank">kankaili@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Hi, Andrei,</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Thank you for your comments.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">First of all, I fully agree with you that, as you
pointed out, ICANN indeed "runs" domains. </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">However, ICANN being a multi-stakeholder entity,
exactly who within ICANN "runs" those domains? I am afraid they are the
registries and registrars, represented by a part of GNSO. For ccTLDs,
those at ccNSO do. However, ALAC obviously does not. Neither do most
other AC/SOs, at least not for their own commercial interests.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Thus, why does the world needs ICANN? Why is
ICANN designed as non-profit instead of a commercial entity to "run"
domains? According to my understanding, that is because the public needs
somebody responsible and to be in charge of the DNS system. That is, to be
responsible for the public interests, primarily the interests of
end-users/consumers.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Thus, as we can see, about all of what ICANN does, is
to prescribe regulations in order to keep those commercial entities, mostly
registries and registrars, under a leash. However, as ICANN is
international without a legislation behind, these regulations are presented as
contracts enforced by a judicial system, currently the State of
California.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">The clear definition of ICANN was not as
important before it became independent last year. That is becuase,
although not ideal for ICANN's global responsbility, there is a US publicly
elected legislation behind who is ultimately in charge. However, after its
independence, the definition of ICANN's responsibility becomes
vital.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Lately, we have seen some people at GNSO discussing
using surplus revenue from the new gTLD program to promote "awareness" of the
program. To be exact, that is to use ICANN's money as
registries'/registrars' marketing budget. Isn't it? Why don't they
form their own association and hire their own marketing agency? The only
explanation is, they are seeing ICANN as their own trade association and
marketing agency.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Believe me, I can fully understand that keeping some
definitions fuzzy is necessary under certain environments. That is because
most people cannot afford the dear "price" to clarify them. However, now
we are talking about ICANN and the Internet, where I do not see such
a "price" to be paid. This is another reason I strongly suggest we
make it clear, especially for ALAC representing the billions of end-users, those
who need ICANN to protect their interests as a regulator. </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Afterall, a "de facto regulator of the cyber space",
this is why ICANN was created.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Only my personal opinion and to be further
discussed. Thank you again.</font></div><span class="m_-5268105412077440052HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Kaili</font></div></font></span><div><div class="m_-5268105412077440052h5">
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b>
<a title="andrei@rol.ru" href="mailto:andrei@rol.ru" target="_blank">Andrei Kolesnikov</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体"><b>To:</b> <a title="kankaili@gmail.com" href="mailto:kankaili@gmail.com" target="_blank">Kan Kaili</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="jjs@dyalog.net" href="mailto:jjs@dyalog.net" target="_blank">JJS</a> ; <a title="alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org" href="mailto:alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank">ALAC working list</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 01, 2017 3:20 PM</div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ALAC] ICANN as a 501(c)(3)
Organisation</div>
<div><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>it is amazing how much time and efforts human beings can spend in finding
the stable platform to prove the things they do. Resulting in million dollars
spent on legal, meetings, travel etc. :)<br></div>ICANN exists, it runs
domains. Business practices established many years ago and world accepted it.
I think this is a good explanation what ICANN is.<br><br></div>Yours,
--andrei<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2017-05-01 9:06 GMT+03:00 Kan Kaili <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kankaili@gmail.com" target="_blank">kankaili@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Hi,</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Thank you for your response and
comment.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Indeed, now ICANN is fully independent of the
US DOC, clearly defining ICANN's functions becomes even more important
than before. Otherwise, it may well become a trade association.
This is shown from GNSO's discussion of using surplus from the new gTLD
program to "promote awareness" of new G. That is, marketing for
registries/registrars.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">In addition, now the overall environment is quite
different from a decade ago. At least, I believe the US Government
would not be against the idea of "regulator".</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Thus, I wonder if the At-Large community should
again begin to advocate ICANN as a "de facto regulator of the cyber
world".</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Thank you again.</font></div><span class="m_-5268105412077440052m_575133423362180774HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Kaili</font></div></font></span>
<div>
<div class="m_-5268105412077440052m_575133423362180774h5">
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a title="jjs@dyalog.net" href="mailto:jjs@dyalog.net" target="_blank">JJS</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体"><b>To:</b> <a title="kankaili@gmail.com" href="mailto:kankaili@gmail.com" target="_blank">KAN Kaili</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="ocl@gih.com" href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" target="_blank">Olivier CREPIN-LEBLOND</a> ; <a title="alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org" href="mailto:alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank">ALAC working
list</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 01, 2017 1:19 PM</div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ALAC] ICANN as a 501(c)(3)
Organisation</div>
<div><br></div>
<p dir="ltr">Kaili is quite right in pointing out the fundamental importance
of ICANN being truthfully described.</p>
<p dir="ltr">A decade ago, and less, this came up in Board discussions every
now and then, the majority swatting down anything suggestive of
"regulation". The closest we got to accurately naming ICANN's function was
"quasi regulation", but this expression was then redacted from reports.
Among the arguments put forward by opponents to such a designation, the
fear of aggravating Washington was uppermost. Who were we to dare question
a tenet of Reagonomics and Thatcherism, i.e. "Only self-regulation can
lead to prosperity"? And never mind if the 2008 financial meltdown proved
that self-regulation had failed, common wisdom would not accept the
evidence.</p>
<p dir="ltr">This debate is not neutral, especially at a time when we see a
perilous convergence between some democracies and the régimes they used to
(rightly) criticize. When democracies resort to doctoring facts and
smothering free debate, the public interest is in peril.</p>
<p dir="ltr">This may be the right time to put forward, once again, the term
"quasi regulatory" to describe ICANN's main function. As in the time of
Copernic, calling out reality may not be without risk, but remains
essential for human development.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Jean-Jacques.<br><br><br></p>
<div class="gmail_quote">Le 1 mai 2017, à 03:29, Kan Kaili <<a href="mailto:kankaili@gmail.com" target="_blank">kankaili@gmail.com</a>>
a écrit:
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Hi,</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">As ICANN CEO visited China last week, I raised
a question during the meeting: Exactly what is ICANN?</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">According to what ICANN does, it is a de facto
REGULATOR serving the public interest by regulating the DNS
industry. </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">However, he flatly denied that, saying ICANN
is a "stock exchange".</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">As I see it, this is a fundamental undefined
question of ICANN. Even during the openning speech in Copenhagen,
Steve Croker said "whatever ICANN is ..." </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">However, this question leads to the position
and weight of ALAC, and the consumers'/end-users' interests, within
ICANN, including the number of seats on the Board, budget allocation,
etc.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Thus, I hope this question at least could be
clarified within the At-Large community, before we can make it clear in
ICANN.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Thank you.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体">Kaili</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="宋体"></font> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a title="ocl@gih.com" href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" target="_blank">Olivier MJ
Crepin-Leblond</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体"><b>To:</b> <a title="alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org" href="mailto:alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank">ALAC Working
List</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 25, 2017 2:10
PM</div>
<div style="FONT:9pt 宋体"><b>Subject:</b> [ALAC] ICANN as a 501(c)(3)
Organisation</div>
<div><br></div>Dear Alan,<br><br>as a follow-up to my explanation on
the ALAC mailing list about ICANN being a 501(c)(3) organisation, the
relevant Article of Incorporation paragraph is:<br>(Ref: <a class="m_-5268105412077440052m_575133423362180774m_3968875922633185118moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/governance/articles-en" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/resource<wbr>s/pages/governance/articles-en</a>
)<br><br><i><font color="#3366ff">Article 2.I.II:<br>This Corporation is
a nonprofit public benefit corporation and is not organized for the
private gain of any person. It is organized under the Nonprofit Public
Benefit Corporation Law for charitable and public purposes. The
Corporation is organized, and will be operated, exclusively for
charitable, educational, and scientific purposes within the meaning of
§ 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended (the
“<strong>Code</strong>”), or the corresponding provision of any future
United States tax code. Any reference in these Articles to the Code
shall include the corresponding provisions of any future United States
tax code. In furtherance of the foregoing purposes, and in recognition
of the fact that the Internet is an international network of networks,
owned by no single nation, individual or organization, the Corporation
shall, except as limited by <u>Article IV</u> hereof, pursue the
charitable and public purposes of <b>lessening the burdens of
government and promoting the global public interest </b>in the
operational stability of the Internet by carrying out the mission set
forth in the bylaws of the Corporation (“<strong>Bylaws</strong>”).
Such global public interest may be determined from time to time.
Any determination of such global public interest shall be made by the
multistakeholder community through an inclusive bottom-up
multistakeholder community process.<br><br>Article
2.IV:<br>Notwithstanding any other provision of these Articles: <br>a.
The Corporation shall not carry on any other activities not permitted
to be carried on (i) by a corporation exempt from United States income
tax under § 501(c)(3) of the Code or (ii) by a corporation,
contributions to which are deductible under § 170(c)(2) of the
Code.<br>b. No substantial part of the activities of the Corporation
shall be the carrying on of propaganda, or otherwise attempting to
influence legislation, and the Corporation shall be empowered to make
the election under § 501 (h) of the Code.</font></i>
<p>So what does the § 501(c)(3) tax code say? <a class="m_-5268105412077440052m_575133423362180774m_3968875922633185118moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bit.ly/1Va1vVt" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/1Va1vVt</a></p>
<p>To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue
Code, an organization must be <a href="https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/organizational-test-internal-revenue-code-section-501c3" target="_blank">organized</a> and <a href="https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/operational-test-internal-revenue-code-section-501c3" target="_blank">operated</a> exclusively for <a href="https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exempt-purposes-internal-revenue-code-section-501c3" target="_blank">exempt purposes</a> set forth in section 501(c)(3), and
none of its earnings may <a href="https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/inurement-private-benefit-charitable-organizations" target="_blank">inure</a> to any private shareholder or individual.</p>
<p><br></p>
<p>Exempt purposes:</p>
<p><a class="m_-5268105412077440052m_575133423362180774m_3968875922633185118moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exempt-purposes-internal-revenue-code-section-501c3" target="_blank">https://www.irs.gov/charities-<wbr>non-profits/charitable-organiz<wbr>ations/exempt-purposes-interna<wbr>l-revenue-code-section-501c3</a></p>
<p><i><font color="#3366ff">The exempt purposes set forth in section
501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific,
literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or
international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to
children or animals. The term <em>charitable</em> is used in its
generally accepted legal sense and includes relief of the poor, the
distressed, or the underprivileged; advancement of religion;
advancement of education or science; erecting or maintaining public
buildings, monuments, or works; <b>lessening the burdens of
government</b>; lessening neighborhood tensions; eliminating prejudice
and discrimination; defending human and civil rights secured by law;
and combating community deterioration and juvenile
delinquency.</font></i></p>
<p><font color="#3366ff"><font color="#000000">So "lessening the burdens
of government" is clearly the key reason for ICANN to operate as
501(c)(3), but as you can see there are other possible purposes. (As a
side track, it is particularly important to note the "global public
interest" part of the mission which is still undefined and
unresolved.)</font></font></p>
<p><font color="#3366ff"><font color="#000000">With the new gTLD program
generating a large income, ICANN needs to be very careful and show
sustained support for "lessening the burdens of government" - thus
support all sorts of Internet-related activities outside of ICANN. Not
doing so, it could be accused of "excess benefit transactions" <a class="m_-5268105412077440052m_575133423362180774m_3968875922633185118moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/intermediate-sanctions-excess-benefit-transactions" target="_blank">https://www.irs.gov/charities-<wbr>non-profits/charitable-organiz<wbr>ations/intermediate-sanctions-<wbr>excess-benefit-transactions</a>
and be sanctioned. ICANN needs to walk a very fine line on this. I am
not a US tax attorney and have very little knowledge of the matter,
but it is my understanding that if ICANN was to stop supporting
initiatives in the wider Internet ecosystem space, activities related
to ICANN but not *strictly* relating to Names and Numbers, it would
risk losing its 501(c)(3) status.<br></font></font></p>
<p><font color="#3366ff"><font color="#000000">This loss of 501(c)(3)
status is completely independent of the point of view that some are
holding that ICANN is spending too much money outside ICANN core
activities. <br></font></font></p>
<p><font color="#3366ff"><font color="#000000">It is also worth noting
that adhering to the conditions for retaining 501(c)(3) status will be
a key issue for the allocation of Auction funds.<br></font></font></p>
<p><font color="#3366ff"><font color="#000000">I really think that we
should fully play this card when it comes down to use of funds in
ICANN. The At-Large Community is part of this "promoting the global
public interest" and we need to remind everyone about this
regularly.</font></font></p>
<p><font color="#3366ff"><font color="#000000"><br></font></font></p>
<p><font color="#3366ff"><font color="#000000">Kindest
regards,</font></font></p>
<p><font color="#3366ff"><font color="#000000"><br></font></font></p>
<p><font color="#3366ff"><font color="#000000">Olivier<br></font></font></p>
<p><font color="#3366ff"><font color="#000000"></font><br></font></p>
<p></p>
<hr>
<p></p>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>ALAC
mailing list<br><a href="mailto:ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank">ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br><a href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac" target="_blank">https://atlarge-lists.icann.or<wbr>g/mailman/listinfo/alac</a><br><br>At-Large
Online: <a href="http://www.atlarge.icann.org" target="_blank">http://www.atlarge.icann.org</a><br>ALAC Working Wiki:
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mailing list<br><a href="mailto:ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank">ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br><a href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://atlarge-lists.icann.or<wbr>g/mailman/listinfo/alac</a><br><br>At-Large
Online: <a href="http://www.atlarge.icann.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.atlarge.icann.org</a><br>ALAC Working Wiki: <a href="https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(ALAC)" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/di<wbr>splay/atlarge/At-Large+Advisor<wbr>y+Committee+(ALAC)</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>
<div class="m_-5268105412077440052m_575133423362180774gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Andrey Kolesnikov<br></div>
<div><a href="http://RIPN.NET" target="_blank">RIPN.NET</a><br></div>
<div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="m_-5268105412077440052gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Andrey Kolesnikov<br></div><div><a href="http://RIPN.NET" target="_blank">RIPN.NET</a><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
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