[ALAC] ALS certification and decertification votes

h.raiche at internode.on.net h.raiche at internode.on.net
Fri Oct 3 20:31:05 UTC 2014


 
I would also be comfortable with either 1 or 3.  For reasons others have set out well, I am not happy with option 2. 
 
Holly 
 
 
On Sat 04/10/14  4:29 AM , Alan Greenberg alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca sent: 
> I have to question how much refinement we should  
> be putting into something that so far, has  
> happened perhaps once every year or two or three  
> and to the best of my recollection has only been  
> challenged once in our history. 
>  
> Personally, I can readily accept 1 or 3.  Which I  
> have a preference for I will keep to myself for the moment. 
>  
> I would prefer not to take 2, but could accept  
> it, but suspect it may make us unable to properly  
> fulfill our mandate and we would need to do some  
> additional investigation regarding the  
> interpretation of the Bylaws and how ombudsman issues are resolved. 
>  
> Alan 
>  
> At 03/10/2014 02:27 PM, Raf Fatani wrote: 
> >Indeed that is how I understand it. 
> > 
> >If we had a vote on these three items, I would 
>  
> >there needs to be a mechanism of 'checks and 
> balances' to this option.> 
> >This said, maybe we can find agreement in these 
> >'checks and balances' in order to find consensus 
> in this group.> 
> >Would this be a good starting point? if so, for 
>  
>  
> >mechanism that you would find 
> agreeable?> 
> >Kind Regards, 
> > 
> >Raf 
> > 
> > 
> >On 3 Oct 2014, at 19:05, Alan Greenberg <alan 
> .greenberg at mcgill.ca> wrote:> 
> > > This is getting to be 
> interesting.> > 
> > > So far, I think that we have general 
> > agreement on how to handle all votes except a 
> > certification where the RALO is undecided. Here 
> we have multiple positions.> > 
> > > 1. Secret but staff/chair can access 
> details> > 2. Everything secret. 
> > > 3. Everything published. 
> > > 
> > > Alan 
> > > 
> > > At 03/10/2014 01:42 PM, Fatima Cambronero 
> wrote:> > 
> > >> Dear All, 
> > >> 
> > >> I agree with Sandra on this. 
> > >> 
> > >> I expressed in our last teleconference 
> a > similar point: our roles are as representatives 
> from our RALOs.> >> 
> > >> I think whenever possible, our votes in 
> > certification and decertification processes 
> > should be open and transparent and be available 
> to be consulted for our RALOs.> >> 
> > >> I believe it is easy to deal with happy 
> > people, when we voted in the same sense that 
> > our RALO expressed. But the main skill of a 
> > leader is dealing with less happy people when 
> > we voted on contrary sense of their 
> "mandate". > If we can explain why our votes were in 
> > different sense, we don't be worried because 
> > some RALO members don't smile us 
> anymore.> >> 
> > >> Just my 2 cents. 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> Best Regards, 
> > >> 
> > >> Fatima 
> > >> 
> > >> 2014-10-03 14:39 GMT-03:00 Alberto Soto 
> > <<aso 
> to at ibero-americano.org>asoto at ibero-americano.org>:> >> Again, I agree Alan. Not all measures 
> of a > democratic government, are ideal. 
> > >> Seek balance, governance and better 
> functionality.> >> Regards 
> > >> 
> > >> Alberto 
> > >> 
> > >> -----Mensaje original----- 
> > >> De:  
> > <alac-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>alac-bounces at atlarge-li 
> sts.icann.org > [alac-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] En nombre de Alan 
> Greenberg> >> Enviado el: viernes, 03 de octubre de 
> 2014 02:30 p.m.> >> Para: sandra hoferichter; Evan 
> Leibovitch> >> CC: ALAC 
> > >> Asunto: Re: [ALAC] ALS certification 
> and decertification votes> >> 
> > >> Most votes would be open. Our rules 
> allow > someone to explain their vote if they wish 
> > (particularly a no or abstain). For those few 
> > votes where there is no recommendation from the 
> > RALO, the vote would be secret, BUT we would be 
> > able to privately request a rationale for the 
> vote.> >> 
> > >> You are correct (in my view) that in an 
> > ideal world, the ALAC members, who have an 
> > obligation to support the ALAC, At-Large and 
> > ICANN, could vote against the wishes of some in 
> > their RALO, and could justify this. The same is 
> > true for personnel votes, and some parts of 
> ICANN have those open as well.> >> 
> > >> But I am not sure ALAC members are paid 
> > enough to subject them to possible harassment if 
> we can easily remedy it.> >> 
> > >> Alan 
> > >> 
> > >> At 03/10/2014 01:17 PM, sandra 
> hoferichter wrote:> >> >Hi all, my thoughts on one point. I 
> understand or self as being> >> >privileged in terms that most of us 
> are elected by their RALOs to> >> >represent their interest. They put 
> trust in us. Sometimes we have to> >> >take decisions such as 
> certification and decertification. I see the> >> >point of personal relationships 
> within a RALO - which might be> >> >challenged depending on he vote. 
> BUT as we have a certain> >> >responsibility here I think all of 
> us should take that burden to> >> >justify a decision personally 
> within the region and globally as a> >> >group. This would be in my POV the 
> most democratic approach.> >> > 
> > >> >Best Sandra 
> > >> > 
> > >> >(Note: This message was send from 
> my iPhone - I do apologise for any> >> >misspelling.) 
> > >> > 
> > >> > > Am 03.10.2014 um 17:52 
> schrieb Evan > Leibovitch <<evan at telly.org 
> >evan at telly.org>:> >> > > 
> > >> > > On 3 October 2014 11:42, Alan 
> Greenberg > <<alan 
> .greenberg at mcgill.ca>alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca> wrote:> >> > > 
> > >> > > 
> > >> > >> You are saying that your 
> suggestion for for 2 would be:> >> > >> 
> > >> > >> 2. We have general 
> agreement that for certification votes where> >> > >> there is definitive 
> regional advice, we should have standard open> >> > >> votes. For cases where 
> there is not definitive regional> >> > advice, how ALAC members vote 
> should> >> > >> not be 
> published.> >> > > 
>  
> > >> > > 
>  
> > >> > > > 
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> > >> 
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> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> -- 
> > >> Fatima Cambronero 
> > >> Abogada-Argentina 
> > >> 
> > >> Phone: +54 9351 5282 668 
> > >> Twitter: @facambronero 
> > >> Skype: fatima.cambronero 
> > > 
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