[ALAC] ALS certification and decertification votes
h.raiche at internode.on.net
h.raiche at internode.on.net
Fri Oct 3 20:31:05 UTC 2014
I would also be comfortable with either 1 or 3. For reasons others have set out well, I am not happy with option 2.
Holly
On Sat 04/10/14 4:29 AM , Alan Greenberg alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca sent:
> I have to question how much refinement we should
> be putting into something that so far, has
> happened perhaps once every year or two or three
> and to the best of my recollection has only been
> challenged once in our history.
>
> Personally, I can readily accept 1 or 3. Which I
> have a preference for I will keep to myself for the moment.
>
> I would prefer not to take 2, but could accept
> it, but suspect it may make us unable to properly
> fulfill our mandate and we would need to do some
> additional investigation regarding the
> interpretation of the Bylaws and how ombudsman issues are resolved.
>
> Alan
>
> At 03/10/2014 02:27 PM, Raf Fatani wrote:
> >Indeed that is how I understand it.
> >
> >If we had a vote on these three items, I would
>
> >there needs to be a mechanism of 'checks and
> balances' to this option.>
> >This said, maybe we can find agreement in these
> >'checks and balances' in order to find consensus
> in this group.>
> >Would this be a good starting point? if so, for
>
>
> >mechanism that you would find
> agreeable?>
> >Kind Regards,
> >
> >Raf
> >
> >
> >On 3 Oct 2014, at 19:05, Alan Greenberg <alan
> .greenberg at mcgill.ca> wrote:>
> > > This is getting to be
> interesting.> >
> > > So far, I think that we have general
> > agreement on how to handle all votes except a
> > certification where the RALO is undecided. Here
> we have multiple positions.> >
> > > 1. Secret but staff/chair can access
> details> > 2. Everything secret.
> > > 3. Everything published.
> > >
> > > Alan
> > >
> > > At 03/10/2014 01:42 PM, Fatima Cambronero
> wrote:> >
> > >> Dear All,
> > >>
> > >> I agree with Sandra on this.
> > >>
> > >> I expressed in our last teleconference
> a > similar point: our roles are as representatives
> from our RALOs.> >>
> > >> I think whenever possible, our votes in
> > certification and decertification processes
> > should be open and transparent and be available
> to be consulted for our RALOs.> >>
> > >> I believe it is easy to deal with happy
> > people, when we voted in the same sense that
> > our RALO expressed. But the main skill of a
> > leader is dealing with less happy people when
> > we voted on contrary sense of their
> "mandate". > If we can explain why our votes were in
> > different sense, we don't be worried because
> > some RALO members don't smile us
> anymore.> >>
> > >> Just my 2 cents.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Best Regards,
> > >>
> > >> Fatima
> > >>
> > >> 2014-10-03 14:39 GMT-03:00 Alberto Soto
> > <<aso
> to at ibero-americano.org>asoto at ibero-americano.org>:> >> Again, I agree Alan. Not all measures
> of a > democratic government, are ideal.
> > >> Seek balance, governance and better
> functionality.> >> Regards
> > >>
> > >> Alberto
> > >>
> > >> -----Mensaje original-----
> > >> De:
> > <alac-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>alac-bounces at atlarge-li
> sts.icann.org > [alac-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] En nombre de Alan
> Greenberg> >> Enviado el: viernes, 03 de octubre de
> 2014 02:30 p.m.> >> Para: sandra hoferichter; Evan
> Leibovitch> >> CC: ALAC
> > >> Asunto: Re: [ALAC] ALS certification
> and decertification votes> >>
> > >> Most votes would be open. Our rules
> allow > someone to explain their vote if they wish
> > (particularly a no or abstain). For those few
> > votes where there is no recommendation from the
> > RALO, the vote would be secret, BUT we would be
> > able to privately request a rationale for the
> vote.> >>
> > >> You are correct (in my view) that in an
> > ideal world, the ALAC members, who have an
> > obligation to support the ALAC, At-Large and
> > ICANN, could vote against the wishes of some in
> > their RALO, and could justify this. The same is
> > true for personnel votes, and some parts of
> ICANN have those open as well.> >>
> > >> But I am not sure ALAC members are paid
> > enough to subject them to possible harassment if
> we can easily remedy it.> >>
> > >> Alan
> > >>
> > >> At 03/10/2014 01:17 PM, sandra
> hoferichter wrote:> >> >Hi all, my thoughts on one point. I
> understand or self as being> >> >privileged in terms that most of us
> are elected by their RALOs to> >> >represent their interest. They put
> trust in us. Sometimes we have to> >> >take decisions such as
> certification and decertification. I see the> >> >point of personal relationships
> within a RALO - which might be> >> >challenged depending on he vote.
> BUT as we have a certain> >> >responsibility here I think all of
> us should take that burden to> >> >justify a decision personally
> within the region and globally as a> >> >group. This would be in my POV the
> most democratic approach.> >> >
> > >> >Best Sandra
> > >> >
> > >> >(Note: This message was send from
> my iPhone - I do apologise for any> >> >misspelling.)
> > >> >
> > >> > > Am 03.10.2014 um 17:52
> schrieb Evan > Leibovitch <<evan at telly.org
> >evan at telly.org>:> >> > >
> > >> > > On 3 October 2014 11:42, Alan
> Greenberg > <<alan
> .greenberg at mcgill.ca>alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca> wrote:> >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> You are saying that your
> suggestion for for 2 would be:> >> > >>
> > >> > >> 2. We have general
> agreement that for certification votes where> >> > >> there is definitive
> regional advice, we should have standard open> >> > >> votes. For cases where
> there is not definitive regional> >> > advice, how ALAC members vote
> should> >> > >> not be
> published.> >> > >
>
> > >> > >
>
> > >> > > >
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Fatima Cambronero
> > >> Abogada-Argentina
> > >>
> > >> Phone: +54 9351 5282 668
> > >> Twitter: @facambronero
> > >> Skype: fatima.cambronero
> > >
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